Clarisse's family would be considered obsolete because of their ideass and custums. They are obsolete because the spend time together and talk to each other. Clarisse also thinks things through a different way and always asks questions. On the other hand they could be considered liberal because her family is thinking beyond technology and remembering life before this new order.
Clarisses family is obsolete for their time. Clarisse does things very differently from every body else, she does things more like we do today. Also her family likes to talk and discuss things like families do now, but other people in their time think this is wierd and out of the ordinary.
I think Clarisse's family is obsolete because she knew that firefighters used to put out fires instead of start them. She wouldn't be futuristic because she seems to know the past and the world then seems to be going the complete opposite way.
Clarisse's family is obsolete in the way that they do things that are considered old fashion. However, it seems as if Clarisse doesn't know if the things her family does were done in the past. Therefore, they could be considered liberal for doing things differently and in a way trying to move forward.
I believe Clarisse's family is obsolete to the society it is present in. Families in Farenheit 451 are a lot less complex and don't take time to discuss things with each other like Clarisse's family does. Clarisse's family could maybe be considered liberal but I would think of them more as independent as I find it hard to bind them to such a specialized party as being "liberal."
It's easy enough to call them liberal when what they believe in makes sense to us but to the rest of their world in Farenheit 451 they must seem obsolete because they are "old school"
what i dont understand is how she knows all of this, if not even montog--as an adult--knows the things. it makes me wonder if Clarisse's family has books.
I feel like Clarisse is in some ways very odd, or maybe 'liberal'. She seems pretty normal to us, when she discusses reading books with the fireman. They find her very odd though, because its ridiculous to read books then. This goes back to the normal human behavior we were talking about. For us we find it normal to be curious, and to ask questions about reading and the past. Everyone around her in that time finds it odd, because it seems more like a don't ask questions, and don't question the government around you situation. Emily just added that because they all look the same, they should all think the same (the fireman) and I think sometimes that is true. Sometimes everyone wants to fit in, like a clique at school might all look the same, and they all think the same and there is just one rebel in the group, who doesn't quite agree. This cou,d be taken ass who Clarisse is in the novel. Shes breaking the mold of everyone in that society and kind of becoming her own person.
I think they are obsolete beacause they live in the past. They do out of the ordinary stuff that people dont approve of during this time. They believe in stopping and watching the world around them and its natural beauty. They think differently than the rest of the society. They think and act in the past.
Clarisse's family would be considered obsolete because they stick more to the old culter of life not really ingraseing the full consept of everything but at the same time are trying to keep up with moderat times. For example she is trying to figure out fire fighters. She tries to keep with the old time because they all kind of look the same. In hense every one might think that they think the same sence they all try to look and be the same. So over all i guess that there family is more Obsolete.
Clarisse is obsolete to the society in Fahrenheit 451. She lives modernly, but she sounds like she likes the past better. She's always talking about what used to be as opposed to what is or will be. Clarisse's old fashioned attitude is frowned upon, but it could end up helping people to remind them to 'unplug.' However, it could also go in the other direction where she gets in trouble and get locked up like her uncle. Montag sees her as simple-minded, but I think that she is more philiosophical than just her surface. Clarisse knows there's a reason for why things were back in our time and that what was going on in 2052 is very, very wrong.
Clarisse's family is more obsolete than liberal but still a mix of both. They know about the firefighters that used to put out fires instead of starting them. I agree with the people who say that the family keeps up with the times not really one specific time though. They don't completely fit in with any time because of the different ways they think and react to certain sitautions.
I think that the family would be more obsolete than liberal. One because of Clarisse herself, she is more like people in our time. She tells stories of her uncle who was arrested for just taking a walk and for driving to slow. Another thing is that she seems to be inrtiged by the firemen instead of afraid of them like the others. Also that she remembers that firemen used to put out fires instead of starting them. She also talks about things that others wouldnt and she is so out there unlike the rest of the people. Since we havent read about any of her other famliy besides her uncle, I would say they are more obsolete than liberal.
Listening to this conversation I am curious about, what makes Clarisse so different? Was it just the way she was raised or does she know something that Montag and the others don't know?
Instead of getting involved with technology they spend time with eachother. Our world used to talk more than use technology but they are getting to have their time consumed with new technology. Therefore they are obsolete.
They are more obsolete because of all the things they recall from the past and remember. Yet they are also liberal because of the futuristic world they are living in. There are things such as billboards and medical machines that had probably not yet been thought of in the 1950's when the book was written. Will A
It seems to me that in montag's eyes the profession of fire fighters is a nobel profession, but in the public's eyes, they are worried they will have all of their personal items burned and destroyed so they are very afraid and maybe even angry with the firefighters.
I think they're sort of both. They know about the past and remember what happened, but at the same time they live in the present and know about things like billboards. But they are sort of obselete because they are all the same. I agree with Aaorn that they're communistic because something will happen that will lead to a change in the world. Most of there actions resemble the past like stopping and watching the world around them.
I think that people were more scared of firefighters. I don't know if they necessarily disliked them, but I'm sure that the people who's books they burned didn't like them because they actually have a good reason not to.It also seems like firefighters are a big part of the community so people depend on them, but they are scared of them.
I agree with Emily with the fact that people don't like firefighters. I look at them as negative law enforcers. However, Brendan brings up a great point in that the fighters shouldn't be judged by their occupation. I think that people do not like the FF as a group. The FF as a group and their authority are feared, not respected.
I like the point Courteney made, is Clarisse illegely carring books? She does know quite a bit, she could have old history books. If she has them and has read them then it has showed her the more 'normal' way things used to be. Or rather that she knows the world did not used to be controlled by books. And without books, how do any of these people read?
I agree with Courtney. How does Clarisse know all of the information on how firefighters used to put out fire instead o starting them. Of all people Montag sould hav some sort of information. Especially because he is a firefighter himself.
I think that fire fighters stick out more because people iN the community think that there more out there because they use fire witch shows more like crazy or power. In hense wat they do make people more scared of them because they stick out more.
Brandon said that it was wrong to hate all firefighters becuase it's just their job and it doesn't reflect their personality. I agree with this and Montag is a perfect example of this. We are led to believe that he does love books and that burning houses is just a job, nothing he truly enjoys.
i like what ben said. that the firefighters themselves aren't powerful, but what they do--setting fires--is a powerful idea that keeps people under control in a way that they wouldn't be otherwise.
I think firemen find enjoyment in burning books because it is a way to insure that everyone is equal. Obviously Captain Beatty is far ahead of any other fireman intelluctualy and he is the natural choice to be a "Captain." Another reason I believe firemen burn books, or uphold their profession, is that they are insecure about intelligence and want to be as normal as possible in burning other people's chances to learn.
I think that the people who hide the books, who actually have some books in their home would be obsolete. They are more dated and probably are not into all the new technology.
I think it depends on the person and their personal expirences on wether or not they like the firemen. I agree with Emily though most are probably too afraid to challenge the system. I think some are afraid of the power they have over the people. It seems like most would still have a sense of respect for them beacusse they are government officials.
Clarisse is the way she is from bost how she was raised and knowing something everyone else doesn't. Her family is obviously educated about the past (i.e. her uncle), so that's where she would know about it. Clarisse has her own opinions that branch away from the facts that are planted in her head. Instead of thinking "this is what happened... now what???" she thinks "This is what happened, his is how and why. This is what I think about that." In other words, Clarisse thinks on a more critical level.
I think people marvel at the firemen because they can put out the fire's that people are so afraid of. The firemen seem to have power because they can do such "amazing things".
The firemen are probably disliked because the literature and joy of reading is being taken away. People should be able to choose what they want to read.
I think that he's probably hiding books in the vent because he seems really afraid that people are going to find out. It seems like books would be one of the worst things he could have up there because he burns books and it would go against everything he works for.
I agree with Brandon when he says you can't judge a person's ideas based on their job. Again they get paid to do that and it might not have been their first job choice but it is the job they have. The firefighters that Clarisse knew about are proably more respected then the firefighters that burned books. The government needs them to do their job of burning books and obeying the law so they respect the firefighters more then the general public does.
Everyone is saying that Clarrise must have books to know about the past and what fire fighters used to do. What about how her family is "odd" and cares about different things than other people so they might talk to each other and pass information down mouth to ear. If her family cared about this, then it would make sense to me that her family would want to keep books.
I think that he would think that society would become so controlled by technology that the community would be like memorized they dont get to feel real life experiences so when they do get to or run in to these things they think its not normal or scary just like with the fake dog.
I disagree with what Reese said. I think some firefighters may feel joy and power in burning books and being able to control that. I think some know deep down that it is wrong. Also Ray Bradbury was probably trying to show us that electronics would eventually overtake us. It is already beginning to do this. For instance we are having a group discussion - through blogging, on the internet. You could not have done this back when Bradbury wrote the book, so he was really predicting what was to come. I feel like it was also a warning hat if we don't try to stop, we might be taken to far.
I think he's afraid that somebody found out what was in the vent and programmed the dog to get him. Every time he goes near the dog it growls at him and kind of threatens him, so i think he's not scared of the dog, but of who's controlling the dog.
I believe Ray Bradbury felt a controling movement in government and the utilization of technology in goverment's grip on society. I believe Fahrenheit's society could become a reality as every day the world more communistic and equal, although at the same time this movement towards equality shades us closer to the world's social meltdown.
Fahrenheit 451 brings up the idea of machine being smarter than man. The mechanical dog strays from what it's supposed to do. Now, computers, phones, etc can break down and do things to that we don't want it to, but, that thing couldn't hurt us. The dog could've hurt or killed Montag and no one was even the slightest bit concerned.
I disagree with Victoria R.'s blog because people who hide the books just what to enjoy another form of entertainment. They are like Clarisse's family. Her family may adapt to technology but they still stay true to their old forms. Whereas people that hide books may adapt to technology too but still enjoy books. This makes me question what Ray Bradbury was trying to tell us? Is he saying books are bad or that they are just becoming obsolete? And why would Ray Bradbury choose books of all things to have banned? Why does he feel the need to have people that go against the law just to read?
I think that the author was thinking that we all would become dependant on technology. Maybe that books would give us to much information, that we would become to smart, that the books would give us information that we arent supposed to know. What do they use money for? Also with the children, what happened?! They are killing each other for no reason.
I agree with what erin said about "if this is what a dog can do to a mouse, what can the goverment do to me?" in a way, i think that this is a common idea of the main public because if you are not allowd to talk negitive about the goverment, but you do, then you have an angry group of goverment officials (who are undoubtedly more/better armed than you) going after you alone. your kinda outnumbered and doomed.
I agree with Brandon on how Ray Bradbury was a genius on predicting the future's technology. Most of what we see today in our technology is exactly what he saw we would start using.
I agree with what Mrs. Moritz said about the government wanting to keep society ignorent. That is even apparent in our government today. While we are a pretty free, independent country, there are things we don't know about our government. Sometimes that can be good and protect people, but sometimes it can hurt us and not have a positive affect. I agree with what Emily just said about us always being on our cell phones. We have brought ourselves to a point where we cannot be without them.
The technology that was coming into play back then is why Bradbury wrote this. He could see how we loved to watch the tv and use other new technology usage which was rapidly increasing.
Books are banned so equality can be upheld. (At least in Fahrenheit 451.) It is also a way for government to keeep a check on the people as the state that they live in, without books they can never increase their intelligence. Through this they can keep rebellions down and finally without question can rule the people.
I think books are banned because they want people to be oblivious. Many books would show what life was like and if people read them, they would want life to be like it is in the books. Also books have conflicts and the government is probably working toward peace and equality like in Harrison Burgeron.
Liz brings up a really good point. But i don't think banning books caused a lack of communication i think it was the government keeping society ignoant.
I think that books are banned because a lot of books are fiction more then non fiction so the goverment does not want the human mind really useing its imagination. If people started to use there imaginnation people could lead to doing tings such as war or up to once again challenging the system.
Having your own opinion or if you disagree in Fahrenheit 451 is almost inpossible. If you challenge- or even question the system there are legal consequences. Most people in the book don't think about what might happen if the system is challenged. When Montag was asked about reading a book, he realized he had never really thought about it beyond that fact that it's illegal.
in response, kinda, to tanner w's comment on how technology was coming into play, do you think he was trying to warn our generation or what not what exactly could happen if we let technology basically take over us? or was he warning in a way about what could happen if a goverment became really oppressive and had the technology to basically brain wash them?
Authors are in control of the books they write. The government can't control their minds and tell them what to write so you don't know what to expect. The content might not be something the government wants discussed and when a book is read by a lot of people there will be people talking about it. So the government bans the books or burns them.
I believe our generation is definately being controlled by technology. I cannot think of one place I go that doesn't utilize technology. This could be a bad thing as if technology crashes, then society could be stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Moritz - I feel we are absolutly being controlled by electronics. I probably get online to check my email at least once a day. I have to go check homework assignments online. I have a cell phone to stay in touch with people - constantly. I don't handwrite most assignments, they are word prosseced. I believe it would be very hard to function in society at this time without electroics.
I think that our generation definatly has a big part to do with the advancment in technology but at the same time kids are joining sports and getting more active over the past years. So over all i think that ever kid no I know every kid has used some sort of aveage day technology so i guess yes our generation is kind of controlled but at the same time every kid has that choice.
I think that in a way we are being controlled by technology, we all have an ipod or a phone, and the thing is we all want more. The newer version, bigger, better. So when ad company comes out with something new, we all want it because its new and maybe our friends wont have it yet and we will.
I don't think our generation is being controlled by technology yet but I do believe we are becoming more and more controlled every day. I feel like it's impossible to get ahead of technology, just when you et the newest thing something better comes along. That tops it off and keeps people less advanced then technology. It would be very easy to see what people mean by our generation becoming controlled by technology.
I think that Clarisse kind of has the ability to make people think differently about things. Montag is a fireman so you would think that he would be the last person to start thinking twice about the society and the way everyone lives, but once Clarisse starts saying these things he does.
Montag is so connected to Clarisse because like Emily said, she made him think. She, "opened his mind's eye" and allowed him to analyze things differently then he normally would have.
We are being controlled by technology because many things have an alternative choice that recquires technology. For example writing with a pencil and a sheet of paper has been replaced with typing on a computer. Technology makes activities and work easier to the people of that community.
Yes Mrs. Moritz. I think our generation is very pluggged in and controlled by technology. I know that the first thing i do when i get home is play Xbox. Also cell phones have taken over kids lives. We have lost the way to talk face to face and we now rely on the technology for our lives.
kind of what mat was saying, do you think clarisse and montag kind of have a better connection than him and his wife? do you think that in a way they know each other better becuase they actually talk and listen to each other.
I don't think it is nessarily the ability to make people listen (that Clarisse has). I feel like its more that no one else has ever made these points, so when she brings them up, it makes people think. So its not her on her own. It could have been anyone, it just happened to be her who brought up this point.
clarissse has questioned Montags lifestyle and marals. SHe is geniunely interested in him and create a bond between them. I think Montag is entertained by her and he is different to. I think he relates to Clarisse. Clarrise acts much older than she is and takes time to notice everything around her. What expirience do you think she went through that made her act in this way?
To answer your question Liz, yes I do think that. Some things that may seem unnecessary to some people may seem crucial and need to be learned to others. These things that are being hided from us could help us crucially. Will A
I like Brandon's point on how the government is maybe trying to cover somehting up in the past by not allowing the people to own books. Is Bradbury warning us of technology consuming us? Or is he warning us of losing our pasts? Also, why do we talk about what Clarisse thinks, or what she does? She is a finite figure in the book with all of her actions thought of and created by Bradbury. When we talk about what she thinks or does we are just making predictions of indications of what might be discovered later in the book. We should really be looking at what led Bradbury to creat her character or what he wanted to get across to us using her...
It's interesting Mrs. Moritz that you questioned a possible father/daughter relationship, i think it's very close to that. In the book when Mildred says that Clarisse was killed you can tell Montag is greatly affected by this. He also enjoyed their walks home and talking to him and often thinks back to what Clarisse has to say. And what she questions.
I think that clarisse facinates montag. She asks questions that seem like they are very sophisticated for a person of her age. Many of these questions provoke much thought from montag. Although Montag is much older he finds that she is wise and can think for herself instead of just following society.
Like Victoria said, "I think that in a way we are being controlled by technology, we all have an ipod or a phone, and the thing is we all want more. The newer version, bigger, better."
I definately think that part of our enslavement to technology is the new "iPhone" or next big thing to get. I believe that this is all part of a ploy made by companies to get consumers to massively consume. Ever notice why your ipod or phone only lasts a couple years? It is the companies cheaply producing not only to spit-out more products, but to set up future sales.
If no one has books, how do they learn to read. Because for me to learn to read I just started reading easy books, like Hot Dogg, and books with a few words that were very similar, then going on to harder ones. If they did not have these, how did they learn to read?
I think that Montag likes Clarisse because he provokes thought in him and she is so much different than anyone else in the society. She is alwasy asking questions like, have you ever read a book you've burned? And now Montag took a book from the last house he went to. If he hadnt meet her would he take the book, or would he just have burned the books without thinking about it?
I would say that our generation is definitely controlled by electronics. The elders in our community don't get sucked in by it because they didn't grow up with it so they don't think they need it as much. Little kids or teens on the other hand definitely feel electronics are part of their life and that they are controlled by it. For younger people if you don't have an ipod or a laptop then that is crazy. They grew up with it so that is all they know. Therefore our generation is controlled by electronics.
Technology has most definately taken over. I take my cell phone everywhere. I check it and my grades constantly. And now the whole Facebook craze. Not only kids but adults have fallen into this technological advancement. News stations and TV programs are relying on facebook to recive comments from viewers.
Technology doesn't control us, but it is a massive part of our lives. Almost everything we can document we have on either A) A cell phone B) an iPod or C) A computer. This weekend I crashed my computer and I realized that I had just lost all documentation of any music I listen to, pictures I take, school assignments and all sorts of other things were just distroyed. We rely heavily on technology this day in age. The main way I keep in touch with people is via internet. I e-mail people I haven't seen in a while, I look at my grades and check my homework online, and the only way to know anything about the next day in guard/band is to check my email sometimes multiple times a day.
Montag had new ideas brought to him by Clarisse and he wants to learn how she came up with this idea. He would have not thought of taking a book if it were not for Clarisse because she put ideas of reading the books he burns and knowing firemen used to put out fires. He wants to know more about the job he does.
So what about technology being integrated into our lives? Before Xbox Tanner could have gone home and played tic-tac-toe, he is just playing a game. So what about cell phones? Is it wrong for us to communicate? I'm not defending technology I'm simply pointing out that what we do with it is nothing new in our lives. It simply provides other ways for us to do what we want...
Clarisse gives Montag ideas that he never would have though of. I think that most people are oblivious and would not even think about any of these things and whether they're right or wrong, when people like Clarisse bring these ideas up people really start to think about them.
in a way, maybe montag is so interested in clarisse, that he misses her and almost trying to figure out how she works, is becuase she is different than anybody else in his society, and she, in a way, represents the origonality of somebody, how you can adjust and change yourself to fit somebody else's idea of how you should be but you can't always smother ALL the origonality in you, that there is always something (or someone) different.
I think that our society is absolutly controlled by electronics. Almost every kid middle school up has a cell phone and communicate compleatly through text. When they are not texting they are on xbox live or chatting in some kind of online chat room. People are losing skills that are very impotant like communicating face to face and writing.
So why is it that society is constantly trying to make everyone the same? What is the point of this?? Are there advantages to this, or disadvantages???
Like what Nate said is that technology is not a new concept. It is just faster, quicker, and more efficient ways to complete tasks we normally would do. Sometimes when looking at human's addiction to technology I start to question, why is technology bad in the first place? Is it bad to improve our imperfections?
its like montag and montag's wife are SO seperated that its like they aren't even married. it almost feels like they are strangers that have been told they love each other, so they try to show thoes feelings even though they don't remember them ever being real. they treat each other well, but they seem to do so dryly and without affection.
Reed- I don't think it's bad to improve our imperfections but nothing is ever going to be perfect. So if we are constantly trying to improve these imperfections when will we stop? How do we know when to stop? When is "perfection" enough?
I think that to us the firefighters are the bad guys, but maybe in their society they are the good guys. Montag seems like he will probably challenge the system and go against what the other firefighters think is right.
I agree with Courtney with how Montag and his wife are so seperate. It kind of makes me think of those old TV shows where the master bedroom has two twin beds on opposite sides of the room. The husband goes out and makes a living while the wife stays home. The thing is that this takes place in the future, and the thing it reminds me of is in the past. The people seem like they are moving on, but they just might be reverting back to old ways. At some point, all of them might stop working all together and technology will take over the rest.
I tink some of the firefighters feel the same way because some may have the characteristics that Montaag has. Montag feels that we need to move forward and maybe others feel the same way.
I dont think that other firefighters feel or think the same way because if they did it would lead to a lot bigger things. Such as if all the firefighters think like that why would there be a need for firefighters?
Also, if Montag plans to read the book he took, how will he know how to read? I am still very confused as to how they are able to read, when they have no books.
I think Montag and his wife are sperate because they have nothing to do with eachother that makes tham connect. It is all technology that takes away the joy of just being together.
I don't think that they are martyrs because a life without books is the only life they know. I don't think that the subtraction of books from their life means that much.
I think when Montag said Clarisse was like a mirror it was an analogy for how she sees what everyone is doing in life daiy. So she has thought these things over and questions them. She then honestly just states these things to Montag.
Kinda going off of what Reed said, without the creative outlet of books, are there inventors, visonaries, or any other sort of creative individual in their society?
@Moritz I guess they could be considered martyrs but is their message being transfered to the public? In a society like Fahrenheit's the government wouldn't let news like that get out...
Maybe Montag sees some of his ideas that he has never actually been bold enough to say aloud or admit to himself that he has those thoughts, but Clarisse is much more brave than him and she can actually express her thoughts with other people.
Another way we are all controlled by technology is that we all use text lingo. We all text each other and try to shorten words and sayings. I know that my parents get angry at me when I don't use correct punctuation and grammar, also when I don't spell things out and try to shorten them.
I feel like what Emily said goes along with the everyday version of a story. The hero (Montag) has been given his push to start him into the journey. This makes Clarisse his mentor, which could help the connection. I don't think Clarisse has a mask because she is the mentor, and she already knows what it right in this world already.
Before when no one questioned him he didn't have to think about it. She showed him that it is ok to be unhappy or that what he did to get by wasn't making him happy.
You dont learn to read from just books i mean you cant have have a functional society without being able to read they can learn from technology or other things.
I would say that the types of firefighters in this book are not the heros but not completely evil either. They are not the type of firefighters that save people and put out fires. Since they start fires and burn books they are not doing good in the peoples' eyes only in the governments. We don't know the complete personalities of the other firefighters but we can assume that Montag is the most emotional out of all of them. That is because he doesn't want to leave the lady when she is trying to committ suicide.
walbyn, the firefighters probably don't think that montag thinks these thoughts, so wouldn't it be possible that they also had thoughts they were hiding from us and montag? i feel that it just migt be possible.
In response to Emily's idea: i feel that clairsse did at one time have a mask, but doesn't anymore beucase somebody 'ripped it off.'
Blogging for October 22, 2009: If the firefighters are the equalizers of the country as Captain Beatty has said, does that make the firefighters the "governors" of the Country or are the people in control of the country?
I don't think that the firefighters are the governors. But I don't think the poeple are in control either. I think the firefighters just think they are in control, when in reality a higher power is in control. So the question is who is really in control?
I don't think that the firefighters are the governors of the country because they aren't really making laws, they are following orders to burn the books. They are more of the enforcers and are told what to do.
I dont think that the fire fighters are like the govenors because the people make there own choices i mean they have a lot of power to do then others are aloud to do but till they dont controll all of there peolpe. The goverment definetly made them more powerful for a reason but not really to be in charge.
The people are definitely not in control because they are afraid of the firefighters and afraid of reading the books because of what the government would do to them if they were caught with a book.
I think that the firefighters have some control over the people but they don't have as much control as a governor would. I think their main power is that people are scared of them.
They have a certain amount of power but they are not necessarily the governors. They have some power but they only have the power to regulate the books. They don't enforce any other laws or make any decisions for the country.
I think the firemen are in a way the governers. They were chosen by the government and they keep control of the people and what they read by burning the books. The people are sort of in charge but they choose not to change anything. The government doesn't give them enough information to use their own minds and change things.
I disagree with the fact tht we look up to our goverment. LIke in my life i can go along years of my life doind my own thing with out thinking of them as a role modle or a like controller.
Nathan's point that she is high isn't really a misconception. She probably is high, as she is constantly taking pills. The parlor walls are also probably telling her to take many things that aren't good for her but will make her "happy."
To me firefighters do seem like governors because of how much they dictate others' houses and books by just burning them down. The victims don't have a choice, the firemen are just going off their instinct and in result, some people can even lose lives. It's very unfair.
The firemen do not rule other people. They just do what they have done for a long time. Whoever tells the people what to do is in charge. Anything that has control over someone is powerful. The government has taken the control from the people so that no one knows what power is and therefore no one wants it.
I think that firefighters are governors in Farenheit 451 because they control peoples lives through fear. They govern over others by keeping them afraid.
I don't really think that the people are in control because it is a communist society so they have to do what the government tell them to. If the people were in control they probably wouldn't choose to burn books. Maybe the people don't really know that they aren't in control because the government has brainwashed them.
@Courtney: She questioned are we afraid of are government?
I don't think we are afraid of our government but we like the idea of having someone else in control. We don't want to make all the hard decisions but we do want to think we have some power. So when going back to the life that Montag and Mildred live in I don't think they are afraid of their government either but they just don't understand it or even try to understand it. They just let things play out based on what the higher power wants.
I think the firefighters are not really either because they have a lot of power but are not really controlling people that much. They have the power to burn books but not to control the people just control some of there actions. Most of the people are scared of the firefighters but they are not scared in general about what will happen if they do something not involving books.
I agree that a lot of this book is WAY over put ten wat it needs to be so like the smallest stuff like looking at the sky is taken badley, but hitting and killing a dog is like no b ig deal at all.
I agree with Reed. The firefighters are more like police than governors. They do not create the rules they just enforce them. They are not making the laws that are being enforced.
I don't think the firefighters are the governors of anyone but they have power over peoples lives. They are part of the the government but i don't see how they can rule over people either in Fahrenheit 451 or regular life. The power they have is the decision to let the thing burn or put it out. Or in Fahrenheit, they can choose to not burn the books like Montag, but that doesn't rule over people it just chalenges the system.
Who is in charge of the firefighters? I don't think they just woke up one day and decided that books are bad so they wanted to go burn them all. There is probably another person/organization who has authority over the fire fighters.
I agree with Emily's point. Because of the lack of thinking that goes on in the majority of everyone's brains, there is no debate on whether the government is doing a good job or not.
Like Emily M. said, the people don't really worry or have any sorrow over anything. Maybe because they haven't ever had any substantial value in their lives they wouldn't know sorrow either, because they aren't attached to anything accept their programs it doesn't matter to them if a person or something died. Montag was attached to Clarisse and when she dies he is sad but Mildred who couldn't care less, doesn't care. If it was Mildred that killed Clarisse, would that effect Montag very much?
also the powers of the firemen in Fahrenheit are based on the government and that isn't mentioned all that much in the book, so we cant be specific of what the life of the fireman is, and there powers. All we know is they can kill and burn if there are books involved
I think that Riley has a point. Since the government had files on Clarisse's family, they knew how they thought about the world and probably eliminated the anomaly that was the McClellan family.
For me when I read a book I really connect to the characters and really get involved with the book. When I watch a TV show I don't really connect with the characters. Because of this I think that books and reading are an important part of developing a respect for life and becausse the society in 451 doesn't have books I don't think they really value life. Mildred talks to her "relatives" and is probably attatched to them but they are never really going to die.
I wonder about whta Montag had said in the book about how wars have gone on but no one even noticed, does he mean that the world is so oblivious to things that make them unhappy that they don't even care? So if no one is noticing these wars who is fighting? are machines fighting our battles? And Montag made it sound like just thier country was oblivious to the wars, so what is going on everywhere else in the world??
I think that the goverment likes to controll stuff loike peolpe dieiing or fire fighters to keep the community controlled. I lso think that some of tthe characters in this book know wat is going on but dont want to confront it and just go on with there average lifes.
I agree with what courtney said as I believe Mildred is very self-centered and she will do anything to keep her world perfect. An example of this is on page 20, "How long you figure before we save up and get the fourth wall torn out and a fourth wall-TV pu in? It's only two thousand dollars." Montag replies that's a third of my yearly pay but Mildred doesn't care and just wants to satisify her happiness.
Yes courtney, the people in the book are in a trance set by the government. Will we ever meet someone high in the ranks of government during the story?
I agree with Emily. Clarisse brought out that emotional side of Montag and when she dies he feels that emotion that no one else has. Like in Mildred's case, she doesn't really care about anything else because her state of mind is that she doesn't feel deep emotions that people usually feel when something tragic happens.
I think that the government is not mentioned because nobody really knows anything about it. All that matters to them is their on lives and entertainment.
I think Madeline is right when she says the Mildred is pesimistic. It seems as if she is always looking towards the negative of things that Montag says instead of agreeing or stating her point nicely
Do you think that a lot of the firemen keep books at their houses, or is it just Montag? It would be really easy for them to take the books before burning them.
I agree with aaron's point. things are taken differently in real life than in fiction. In our life something that is taken as a fact can be considered pessimistic and something that is crazy in our world could be considered compleatly normal.
Iagree that Montag did think before Clarisse came into the story because he was already wondering wat was in the vent but Clarisses mind definetly opened up way more in Montags mind such a charecters of peolpe end keeping the book that was in the vent.
I think that the women who he burned alive really struck Montag. He was so shaken and his whole point of view changed. He showed Mildred at this time in the book because he felt that time was running out for him to actually read the book.
Everyone keeps talking about the government, but we don't know who they are or anything about them. If they are in charge, do they think(like thinking more than the general public)? If they do why do they continue "brainwashing" the people?
I think that Clarisse's death was kind of ironic. She was a very big thinker and she was the one who needed to get Montag to think again. It seemed that Clarisse was put into the story to open up Montag's imagination and then she completed her task so Ray Bradbury took her out of the story. It is possible that she was standing in the middle of the street or someone did kill her.
Do you think that the governtment knows all about their past or do they not know anything just like the citizens? I feel like they wouldn't know that much, because it is illegal to read books how would they know anything.
I think Montag took the books out of the curosity that was eating him up inside. Imagine burning books for 10 years and do you think you could keep youself from reading? I would give in after months.
Even though the book was written in the 50's, Bradbury was basing the book in the future. So maybe divorce was more common in the time the book is set.
Ya I agree with Molly. Divorce probably occurs on different sircumstances, if it happensa at all. I would bet that the situations would be different because everything else is.
Well about the divorce thing, why would they bother with a divorce? The people don't care about each other anyway so marraige in the first place is pointless.
I think that she showed him the book because she is compleatly standard for that society. She does every thing that she is told by leaders no matter what it do or who it could effect. She does not stand out at all and she is compleatly the same as everyone else.
Sometimes people don't really know what they are losing or missing out on until something bad happen. Usually, people ignore what is essential to life until a tragedy happens. (sorry if this is confusing) Like in 9/11, it took a tragedy that big to bring the country together and unite as a nation. Do you think that if something really horrible happened in Mildred's life she would show real emotion? (this might be a stupid question but you never know until you try it)
i think he used to love Mildred. but now that he is realizing that he isn't happy he is noticing time got away from him and he just went by each day without thinking about it. Now after meeting Clarisse and seeing the woman burn he has sat back and thought about his life. He sees how Mildred really is and how much he doesn't like it.
i dont think montag would get a divorce because the way they live is the man works the woman stays at home, where would mildrid go? Is the government against divorce? Also does Montag fear a divorce so he keeps away from it
Reed is exactly right. He was so curious about the books and had to find out what they said before his time ran out. Montag knew he couldn't keep his secret secret much longer.
So when Mildred found the book she had to make a decision about her life, right then and there. She could of told Beatty about the book but she didn't. So right there she became a part of what Montag had done. I don't think she really even understood it at the time but she had joined Montag in his crazy quest to figure out what everything is about.
I think that the people in this society get married and lose their families to live with their new spouse. Clarisse has family but she is young, unlike Montag and Mildred who so far seems like all they have is each other. Mildred has her "relatives" but in that society the "relatives" are just mail ordered entertainment.
I think that is a good question and think you are totally right. I think that if Mildred were to die, Montag would have the reaction of any other husband.
Clarisse's family would be considered obsolete because of their ideass and custums. They are obsolete because the spend time together and talk to each other. Clarisse also thinks things through a different way and always asks questions. On the other hand they could be considered liberal because her family is thinking beyond technology and remembering life before this new order.
ReplyDeleteClarisses family is obsolete for their time. Clarisse does things very differently from every body else, she does things more like we do today. Also her family likes to talk and discuss things like families do now, but other people in their time think this is wierd and out of the ordinary.
ReplyDeleteI agree with ben. i feel that they are interested with the new tecnology but they dont agree with alot of the new ideas and such
ReplyDeleteI think Clarisse's family is obsolete because she knew that firefighters used to put out fires instead of start them. She wouldn't be futuristic because she seems to know the past and the world then seems to be going the complete opposite way.
ReplyDeleteI think they are more obsolete bcause they re using te beliefs of earlier times. There ways of life are dated compared to the rest of society.
ReplyDeleteClarisse's family is obsolete in the way that they do things that are considered old fashion. However, it seems as if Clarisse doesn't know if the things her family does were done in the past. Therefore, they could be considered liberal for doing things differently and in a way trying to move forward.
ReplyDeleteI believe Clarisse's family is obsolete to the society it is present in. Families in Farenheit 451 are a lot less complex and don't take time to discuss things with each other like Clarisse's family does. Clarisse's family could maybe be considered liberal but I would think of them more as independent as I find it hard to bind them to such a specialized party as being "liberal."
ReplyDeleteIt's easy enough to call them liberal when what they believe in makes sense to us but to the rest of their world in Farenheit 451 they must seem obsolete because they are "old school"
ReplyDeletewhat i dont understand is how she knows all of this, if not even montog--as an adult--knows the things. it makes me wonder if Clarisse's family has books.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Clarisse is in some ways very odd, or maybe 'liberal'. She seems pretty normal to us, when she discusses reading books with the fireman. They find her very odd though, because its ridiculous to read books then. This goes back to the normal human behavior we were talking about. For us we find it normal to be curious, and to ask questions about reading and the past. Everyone around her in that time finds it odd, because it seems more like a don't ask questions, and don't question the government around you situation. Emily just added that because they all look the same, they should all think the same (the fireman) and I think sometimes that is true. Sometimes everyone wants to fit in, like a clique at school might all look the same, and they all think the same and there is just one rebel in the group, who doesn't quite agree. This cou,d be taken ass who Clarisse is in the novel. Shes breaking the mold of everyone in that society and kind of becoming her own person.
ReplyDeleteI think they are obsolete beacause they live in the past. They do out of the ordinary stuff that people dont approve of during this time. They believe in stopping and watching the world around them and its natural beauty. They think differently than the rest of the society. They think and act in the past.
ReplyDeleteClarisse's family would be considered obsolete because they stick more to the old culter of life not really ingraseing the full consept of everything but at the same time are trying to keep up with moderat times. For example she is trying to figure out fire fighters. She tries to keep with the old time because they all kind of look the same. In hense every one might think that they think the same sence they all try to look and be the same. So over all i guess that there family is more Obsolete.
ReplyDeleteClarisse is obsolete to the society in Fahrenheit 451. She lives modernly, but she sounds like she likes the past better. She's always talking about what used to be as opposed to what is or will be. Clarisse's old fashioned attitude is frowned upon, but it could end up helping people to remind them to 'unplug.' However, it could also go in the other direction where she gets in trouble and get locked up like her uncle. Montag sees her as simple-minded, but I think that she is more philiosophical than just her surface. Clarisse knows there's a reason for why things were back in our time and that what was going on in 2052 is very, very wrong.
ReplyDeleteClarisse's family is more obsolete than liberal but still a mix of both. They know about the firefighters that used to put out fires instead of starting them. I agree with the people who say that the family keeps up with the times not really one specific time though. They don't completely fit in with any time because of the different ways they think and react to certain sitautions.
ReplyDeleteI think that the family would be more obsolete than liberal. One because of Clarisse herself, she is more like people in our time. She tells stories of her uncle who was arrested for just taking a walk and for driving to slow. Another thing is that she seems to be inrtiged by the firemen instead of afraid of them like the others. Also that she remembers that firemen used to put out fires instead of starting them. She also talks about things that others wouldnt and she is so out there unlike the rest of the people. Since we havent read about any of her other famliy besides her uncle, I would say they are more obsolete than liberal.
ReplyDeleteListening to this conversation I am curious about, what makes Clarisse so different? Was it just the way she was raised or does she know something that Montag and the others don't know?
ReplyDeleteInstead of getting involved with technology they spend time with eachother. Our world used to talk more than use technology but they are getting to have their time consumed with new technology. Therefore they are obsolete.
ReplyDeleteThey are more obsolete because of all the things they recall from the past and remember. Yet they are also liberal because of the futuristic world they are living in. There are things such as billboards and medical machines that had probably not yet been thought of in the 1950's when the book was written.
ReplyDeleteWill A
It seems to me that in montag's eyes the profession of fire fighters is a nobel profession, but in the public's eyes, they are worried they will have all of their personal items burned and destroyed so they are very afraid and maybe even angry with the firefighters.
ReplyDeleteI think they're sort of both. They know about the past and remember what happened, but at the same time they live in the present and know about things like billboards. But they are sort of obselete because they are all the same. I agree with Aaorn that they're communistic because something will happen that will lead to a change in the world. Most of there actions resemble the past like stopping and watching the world around them.
ReplyDeleteI think that people were more scared of firefighters. I don't know if they necessarily disliked them, but I'm sure that the people who's books they burned didn't like them because they actually have a good reason not to.It also seems like firefighters are a big part of the community so people depend on them, but they are scared of them.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily with the fact that people don't like firefighters. I look at them as negative law enforcers. However, Brendan brings up a great point in that the fighters shouldn't be judged by their occupation. I think that people do not like the FF as a group. The FF as a group and their authority are feared, not respected.
ReplyDeleteI like the point Courteney made, is Clarisse illegely carring books? She does know quite a bit, she could have old history books. If she has them and has read them then it has showed her the more 'normal' way things used to be. Or rather that she knows the world did not used to be controlled by books. And without books, how do any of these people read?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Courtney. How does Clarisse know all of the information on how firefighters used to put out fire instead o starting them. Of all people Montag sould hav some sort of information. Especially because he is a firefighter himself.
ReplyDeleteI think that fire fighters stick out more because people iN the community think that there more out there because they use fire witch shows more like crazy or power. In hense wat they do make people more scared of them because they stick out more.
ReplyDeleteBrandon said that it was wrong to hate all firefighters becuase it's just their job and it doesn't reflect their personality. I agree with this and Montag is a perfect example of this. We are led to believe that he does love books and that burning houses is just a job, nothing he truly enjoys.
ReplyDeletei like what ben said. that the firefighters themselves aren't powerful, but what they do--setting fires--is a powerful idea that keeps people under control in a way that they wouldn't be otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI think firemen find enjoyment in burning books because it is a way to insure that everyone is equal. Obviously Captain Beatty is far ahead of any other fireman intelluctualy and he is the natural choice to be a "Captain." Another reason I believe firemen burn books, or uphold their profession, is that they are insecure about intelligence and want to be as normal as possible in burning other people's chances to learn.
ReplyDeleteI think that the people who hide the books, who actually have some books in their home would be obsolete. They are more dated and probably are not into all the new technology.
ReplyDeleteI think it depends on the person and their personal expirences on wether or not they like the firemen. I agree with Emily though most are probably too afraid to challenge the system. I think some are afraid of the power they have over the people. It seems like most would still have a sense of respect for them beacusse they are government officials.
ReplyDeleteClarisse is the way she is from bost how she was raised and knowing something everyone else doesn't. Her family is obviously educated about the past (i.e. her uncle), so that's where she would know about it. Clarisse has her own opinions that branch away from the facts that are planted in her head. Instead of thinking "this is what happened... now what???" she thinks "This is what happened, his is how and why. This is what I think about that." In other words, Clarisse thinks on a more critical level.
ReplyDeleteI think people marvel at the firemen because they can put out the fire's that people are so afraid of. The firemen seem to have power because they can do such "amazing things".
ReplyDeleteThe firemen are probably disliked because the literature and joy of reading is being taken away. People should be able to choose what they want to read.
ReplyDeleteI think that he's probably hiding books in the vent because he seems really afraid that people are going to find out. It seems like books would be one of the worst things he could have up there because he burns books and it would go against everything he works for.
ReplyDeleteDo you think there might be books behind the ventilator grill? like a old family bible or some sort of family airloom type thing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brandon when he says you can't judge a person's ideas based on their job. Again they get paid to do that and it might not have been their first job choice but it is the job they have. The firefighters that Clarisse knew about are proably more respected then the firefighters that burned books. The government needs them to do their job of burning books and obeying the law so they respect the firefighters more then the general public does.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is saying that Clarrise must have books to know about the past and what fire fighters used to do. What about how her family is "odd" and cares about different things than other people so they might talk to each other and pass information down mouth to ear. If her family cared about this, then it would make sense to me that her family would want to keep books.
ReplyDeleteI think that he would think that society would become so controlled by technology that the community would be like memorized they dont get to feel real life experiences so when they do get to or run in to these things they think its not normal or scary just like with the fake dog.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with what Reese said. I think some firefighters may feel joy and power in burning books and being able to control that. I think some know deep down that it is wrong. Also Ray Bradbury was probably trying to show us that electronics would eventually overtake us. It is already beginning to do this. For instance we are having a group discussion - through blogging, on the internet. You could not have done this back when Bradbury wrote the book, so he was really predicting what was to come. I feel like it was also a warning hat if we don't try to stop, we might be taken to far.
ReplyDeleteWhat is Ben thinking with his candle analogy? A person can't beat another with a candle.
ReplyDeleteWill A
I think he's afraid that somebody found out what was in the vent and programmed the dog to get him. Every time he goes near the dog it growls at him and kind of threatens him, so i think he's not scared of the dog, but of who's controlling the dog.
ReplyDeleteI believe Ray Bradbury felt a controling movement in government and the utilization of technology in goverment's grip on society. I believe Fahrenheit's society could become a reality as every day the world more communistic and equal, although at the same time this movement towards equality shades us closer to the world's social meltdown.
ReplyDeleteFahrenheit 451 brings up the idea of machine being smarter than man. The mechanical dog strays from what it's supposed to do. Now, computers, phones, etc can break down and do things to that we don't want it to, but, that thing couldn't hurt us. The dog could've hurt or killed Montag and no one was even the slightest bit concerned.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Victoria R.'s blog because people who hide the books just what to enjoy another form of entertainment. They are like Clarisse's family. Her family may adapt to technology but they still stay true to their old forms. Whereas people that hide books may adapt to technology too but still enjoy books. This makes me question what Ray Bradbury was trying to tell us? Is he saying books are bad or that they are just becoming obsolete? And why would Ray Bradbury choose books of all things to have banned? Why does he feel the need to have people that go against the law just to read?
ReplyDeleteI think that the author was thinking that we all would become dependant on technology. Maybe that books would give us to much information, that we would become to smart, that the books would give us information that we arent supposed to know. What do they use money for? Also with the children, what happened?! They are killing each other for no reason.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what erin said about "if this is what a dog can do to a mouse, what can the goverment do to me?" in a way, i think that this is a common idea of the main public because if you are not allowd to talk negitive about the goverment, but you do, then you have an angry group of goverment officials (who are undoubtedly more/better armed than you) going after you alone. your kinda outnumbered and doomed.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brandon on how Ray Bradbury was a genius on predicting the future's technology. Most of what we see today in our technology is exactly what he saw we would start using.
ReplyDeleteI think Clarrise probably doesnt have books beacuse then she would be afraid of Montag. I think Montag may be hiding books though.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Mrs. Moritz said about the government wanting to keep society ignorent. That is even apparent in our government today. While we are a pretty free, independent country, there are things we don't know about our government. Sometimes that can be good and protect people, but sometimes it can hurt us and not have a positive affect. I agree with what Emily just said about us always being on our cell phones. We have brought ourselves to a point where we cannot be without them.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe technology that was coming into play back then is why Bradbury wrote this. He could see how we loved to watch the tv and use other new technology usage which was rapidly increasing.
ReplyDeleteBooks are banned so equality can be upheld. (At least in Fahrenheit 451.) It is also a way for government to keeep a check on the people as the state that they live in, without books they can never increase their intelligence. Through this they can keep rebellions down and finally without question can rule the people.
ReplyDeleteI think books are banned because they want people to be oblivious. Many books would show what life was like and if people read them, they would want life to be like it is in the books. Also books have conflicts and the government is probably working toward peace and equality like in Harrison Burgeron.
ReplyDeleteLiz brings up a really good point. But i don't think banning books caused a lack of communication i think it was the government keeping society ignoant.
ReplyDeleteI think that books are banned because a lot of books are fiction more then non fiction so the goverment does not want the human mind really useing its imagination. If people started to use there imaginnation people could lead to doing tings such as war or up to once again challenging the system.
ReplyDelete@Riley-
ReplyDeleteYour generation seems to be "plugged in"--ipods, cell phones, computers, television; Are you (your generation) being controlled by technology?
Having your own opinion or if you disagree in Fahrenheit 451 is almost inpossible. If you challenge- or even question the system there are legal consequences. Most people in the book don't think about what might happen if the system is challenged. When Montag was asked about reading a book, he realized he had never really thought about it beyond that fact that it's illegal.
ReplyDeletein response, kinda, to tanner w's comment on how technology was coming into play, do you think he was trying to warn our generation or what not what exactly could happen if we let technology basically take over us? or was he warning in a way about what could happen if a goverment became really oppressive and had the technology to basically brain wash them?
ReplyDeleteDo you think the banning of books has created a lack of communication through out their societ? (accidentally deleted it)
ReplyDeleteSolid point Shaffer.
ReplyDeleteWill A
Authors are in control of the books they write. The government can't control their minds and tell them what to write so you don't know what to expect. The content might not be something the government wants discussed and when a book is read by a lot of people there will be people talking about it. So the government bans the books or burns them.
ReplyDeleteI believe our generation is definately being controlled by technology. I cannot think of one place I go that doesn't utilize technology. This could be a bad thing as if technology crashes, then society could be stuck between a rock and a hard place.
ReplyDeleteFather/Daughter relationship???
ReplyDeleteMoritz - I feel we are absolutly being controlled by electronics. I probably get online to check my email at least once a day. I have to go check homework assignments online. I have a cell phone to stay in touch with people - constantly. I don't handwrite most assignments, they are word prosseced. I believe it would be very hard to function in society at this time without electroics.
ReplyDeleteI think that our generation definatly has a big part to do with the advancment in technology but at the same time kids are joining sports and getting more active over the past years. So over all i think that ever kid no I know every kid has used some sort of aveage day technology so i guess yes our generation is kind of controlled but at the same time every kid has that choice.
ReplyDeleteI think that in a way we are being controlled by technology, we all have an ipod or a phone, and the thing is we all want more. The newer version, bigger, better. So when ad company comes out with something new, we all want it because its new and maybe our friends wont have it yet and we will.
ReplyDeleteI don't think our generation is being controlled by technology yet but I do believe we are becoming more and more controlled every day. I feel like it's impossible to get ahead of technology, just when you et the newest thing something better comes along. That tops it off and keeps people less advanced then technology. It would be very easy to see what people mean by our generation becoming controlled by technology.
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse kind of has the ability to make people think differently about things. Montag is a fireman so you would think that he would be the last person to start thinking twice about the society and the way everyone lives, but once Clarisse starts saying these things he does.
ReplyDeleteMontag is so connected to Clarisse because like Emily said, she made him think. She, "opened his mind's eye" and allowed him to analyze things differently then he normally would have.
ReplyDeleteWe are being controlled by technology because many things have an alternative choice that recquires technology. For example writing with a pencil and a sheet of paper has been replaced with typing on a computer. Technology makes activities and work easier to the people of that community.
ReplyDeleteYes Mrs. Moritz.
ReplyDeleteI think our generation is very pluggged in and controlled by technology. I know that the first thing i do when i get home is play Xbox. Also cell phones have taken over kids lives. We have lost the way to talk face to face and we now rely on the technology for our lives.
kind of what mat was saying, do you think clarisse and montag kind of have a better connection than him and his wife? do you think that in a way they know each other better becuase they actually talk and listen to each other.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs. Moritz, the relationship between Clarisse and Montag most closely represents a father daughter relationship.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is nessarily the ability to make people listen (that Clarisse has). I feel like its more that no one else has ever made these points, so when she brings them up, it makes people think. So its not her on her own. It could have been anyone, it just happened to be her who brought up this point.
ReplyDeleteclarissse has questioned Montags lifestyle and marals. SHe is geniunely interested in him and create a bond between them. I think Montag is entertained by her and he is different to. I think he relates to Clarisse. Clarrise acts much older than she is and takes time to notice everything around her. What expirience do you think she went through that made her act in this way?
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question Liz, yes I do think that. Some things that may seem unnecessary to some people may seem crucial and need to be learned to others. These things that are being hided from us could help us crucially.
ReplyDeleteWill A
I like Brandon's point on how the government is maybe trying to cover somehting up in the past by not allowing the people to own books. Is Bradbury warning us of technology consuming us? Or is he warning us of losing our pasts? Also, why do we talk about what Clarisse thinks, or what she does? She is a finite figure in the book with all of her actions thought of and created by Bradbury. When we talk about what she thinks or does we are just making predictions of indications of what might be discovered later in the book. We should really be looking at what led Bradbury to creat her character or what he wanted to get across to us using her...
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting Mrs. Moritz that you questioned a possible father/daughter relationship, i think it's very close to that. In the book when Mildred says that Clarisse was killed you can tell Montag is greatly affected by this. He also enjoyed their walks home and talking to him and often thinks back to what Clarisse has to say. And what she questions.
ReplyDeleteI think that clarisse facinates montag. She asks questions that seem like they are very sophisticated for a person of her age. Many of these questions provoke much thought from montag. Although Montag is much older he finds that she is wise and can think for herself instead of just following society.
ReplyDeleteLike Victoria said,
ReplyDelete"I think that in a way we are being controlled by technology, we all have an ipod or a phone, and the thing is we all want more. The newer version, bigger, better."
I definately think that part of our enslavement to technology is the new "iPhone" or next big thing to get. I believe that this is all part of a ploy made by companies to get consumers to massively consume. Ever notice why your ipod or phone only lasts a couple years? It is the companies cheaply producing not only to spit-out more products, but to set up future sales.
If no one has books, how do they learn to read. Because for me to learn to read I just started reading easy books, like Hot Dogg, and books with a few words that were very similar, then going on to harder ones. If they did not have these, how did they learn to read?
ReplyDelete@Zoe
ReplyDeleteBe careful not to reveal what is about to happen--we haven't read that far. :)
I think that Montag likes Clarisse because he provokes thought in him and she is so much different than anyone else in the society. She is alwasy asking questions like, have you ever read a book you've burned? And now Montag took a book from the last house he went to. If he hadnt meet her would he take the book, or would he just have burned the books without thinking about it?
ReplyDeleteI would say that our generation is definitely controlled by electronics. The elders in our community don't get sucked in by it because they didn't grow up with it so they don't think they need it as much. Little kids or teens on the other hand definitely feel electronics are part of their life and that they are controlled by it. For younger people if you don't have an ipod or a laptop then that is crazy. They grew up with it so that is all they know. Therefore our generation is controlled by electronics.
ReplyDeleteTechnology has most definately taken over. I take my cell phone everywhere. I check it and my grades constantly. And now the whole Facebook craze. Not only kids but adults have fallen into this technological advancement. News stations and TV programs are relying on facebook to recive comments from viewers.
ReplyDeleteTechnology doesn't control us, but it is a massive part of our lives. Almost everything we can document we have on either A) A cell phone B) an iPod or C) A computer. This weekend I crashed my computer and I realized that I had just lost all documentation of any music I listen to, pictures I take, school assignments and all sorts of other things were just distroyed. We rely heavily on technology this day in age. The main way I keep in touch with people is via internet. I e-mail people I haven't seen in a while, I look at my grades and check my homework online, and the only way to know anything about the next day in guard/band is to check my email sometimes multiple times a day.
ReplyDeleteMontag had new ideas brought to him by Clarisse and he wants to learn how she came up with this idea. He would have not thought of taking a book if it were not for Clarisse because she put ideas of reading the books he burns and knowing firemen used to put out fires. He wants to know more about the job he does.
ReplyDeleteSo what about technology being integrated into our lives? Before Xbox Tanner could have gone home and played tic-tac-toe, he is just playing a game. So what about cell phones? Is it wrong for us to communicate? I'm not defending technology I'm simply pointing out that what we do with it is nothing new in our lives. It simply provides other ways for us to do what we want...
ReplyDeleteClarisse gives Montag ideas that he never would have though of. I think that most people are oblivious and would not even think about any of these things and whether they're right or wrong, when people like Clarisse bring these ideas up people really start to think about them.
ReplyDeletein a way, maybe montag is so interested in clarisse, that he misses her and almost trying to figure out how she works, is becuase she is different than anybody else in his society, and she, in a way, represents the origonality of somebody, how you can adjust and change yourself to fit somebody else's idea of how you should be but you can't always smother ALL the origonality in you, that there is always something (or someone) different.
ReplyDeleteI think that our society is absolutly controlled by electronics. Almost every kid middle school up has a cell phone and communicate compleatly through text. When they are not texting they are on xbox live or chatting in some kind of online chat room. People are losing skills that are very impotant like communicating face to face and writing.
ReplyDeleteHey Everyone--
ReplyDeletePlease be sure to use proper punctuation, CAPITALIZATION, spelling and grammar. You are still in English class. :)
I agree with Matt. It seems like Clarrise is very interested in Montag and the way he is, almost too much for a girl her age.
ReplyDeleteSo why is it that society is constantly trying to make everyone the same? What is the point of this?? Are there advantages to this, or disadvantages???
ReplyDeleteLike what Nate said is that technology is not a new concept. It is just faster, quicker, and more efficient ways to complete tasks we normally would do. Sometimes when looking at human's addiction to technology I start to question, why is technology bad in the first place? Is it bad to improve our imperfections?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if all women just stay at home like Mildred or if some women have jobs.
ReplyDeleteits like montag and montag's wife are SO seperated that its like they aren't even married. it almost feels like they are strangers that have been told they love each other, so they try to show thoes feelings even though they don't remember them ever being real. they treat each other well, but they seem to do so dryly and without affection.
ReplyDeleteReed- I don't think it's bad to improve our imperfections but nothing is ever going to be perfect. So if we are constantly trying to improve these imperfections when will we stop? How do we know when to stop? When is "perfection" enough?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily. Their jobs and what they do are antagonists. But they people themselves, probably are not.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletedo other firefighters feel the same way as montag does about books and the world and the other things that go through his mind?
ReplyDeleteI think that to us the firefighters are the bad guys, but maybe in their society they are the good guys. Montag seems like he will probably challenge the system and go against what the other firefighters think is right.
ReplyDeleteMolly brings up an interesting quetion. In a society that kepps making advances it would be interesting to see if women had progressed or regressed.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNo Courtney I don't believe they do.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Courtney with how Montag and his wife are so seperate. It kind of makes me think of those old TV shows where the master bedroom has two twin beds on opposite sides of the room. The husband goes out and makes a living while the wife stays home. The thing is that this takes place in the future, and the thing it reminds me of is in the past. The people seem like they are moving on, but they just might be reverting back to old ways. At some point, all of them might stop working all together and technology will take over the rest.
ReplyDeleteAre the suicidees (not sure what to call them) almost visionaries in their society? Is it better to die then to be blocked from books?
ReplyDeleteI tink some of the firefighters feel the same way because some may have the characteristics that Montaag has. Montag feels that we need to move forward and maybe others feel the same way.
ReplyDeleteI dont think that other firefighters feel or think the same way because if they did it would lead to a lot bigger things. Such as if all the firefighters think like that why would there be a need for firefighters?
ReplyDelete@Reed
ReplyDeleteMartyrs?
Also, if Montag plans to read the book he took, how will he know how to read? I am still very confused as to how they are able to read, when they have no books.
ReplyDeleteI think Montag and his wife are sperate because they have nothing to do with eachother that makes tham connect. It is all technology that takes away the joy of just being together.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that they are martyrs because a life without books is the only life they know. I don't think that the subtraction of books from their life means that much.
ReplyDeleteI think when Montag said Clarisse was like a mirror it was an analogy for how she sees what everyone is doing in life daiy. So she has thought these things over and questions them. She then honestly just states these things to Montag.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing they can read from other things like the computer and TV screens and billboards. Different places words might be.
ReplyDeleteKinda going off of what Reed said, without the creative outlet of books, are there inventors, visonaries, or any other sort of creative individual in their society?
ReplyDelete@Moritz
ReplyDeleteI guess they could be considered martyrs but is their message being transfered to the public? In a society like Fahrenheit's the government wouldn't let news like that get out...
Yeah. I agree with Riley. Since they've been burning the books; have they ever learned how to read, since all they use is technology?
ReplyDeleteMaybe Montag sees some of his ideas that he has never actually been bold enough to say aloud or admit to himself that he has those thoughts, but Clarisse is much more brave than him and she can actually express her thoughts with other people.
ReplyDeleteAnother way we are all controlled by technology is that we all use text lingo. We all text each other and try to shorten words and sayings. I know that my parents get angry at me when I don't use correct punctuation and grammar, also when I don't spell things out and try to shorten them.
ReplyDeleteFinish up, shut down and when you put it away, please plug in. Thanks. :)
ReplyDeleteI feel like what Emily said goes along with the everyday version of a story. The hero (Montag) has been given his push to start him into the journey. This makes Clarisse his mentor, which could help the connection. I don't think Clarisse has a mask because she is the mentor, and she already knows what it right in this world already.
ReplyDeleteBefore when no one questioned him he didn't have to think about it. She showed him that it is ok to be unhappy or that what he did to get by wasn't making him happy.
ReplyDeleteYou dont learn to read from just books i mean you cant have have a functional society without being able to read they can learn from technology or other things.
ReplyDeleteTanner, like what Madeline said, they can read from different technologies such as the TV and computers.
ReplyDeleteI would say that the types of firefighters in this book are not the heros but not completely evil either. They are not the type of firefighters that save people and put out fires. Since they start fires and burn books they are not doing good in the peoples' eyes only in the governments. We don't know the complete personalities of the other firefighters but we can assume that Montag is the most emotional out of all of them. That is because he doesn't want to leave the lady when she is trying to committ suicide.
ReplyDeletewalbyn, the firefighters probably don't think that montag thinks these thoughts, so wouldn't it be possible that they also had thoughts they were hiding from us and montag? i feel that it just migt be possible.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Emily's idea: i feel that clairsse did at one time have a mask, but doesn't anymore beucase somebody 'ripped it off.'
Blogging for October 22, 2009:
ReplyDeleteIf the firefighters are the equalizers of the country as Captain Beatty has said, does that make the firefighters the "governors" of the Country or are the people in control of the country?
I don't think that the firefighters are the governors. But I don't think the poeple are in control either. I think the firefighters just think they are in control, when in reality a higher power is in control. So the question is who is really in control?
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the firefighters are the governors of the country because they aren't really making laws, they are following orders to burn the books. They are more of the enforcers and are told what to do.
ReplyDeleteThe firemen are more like police officers to me. They answer calls to books almost like a common citizen can report something to police officers.
ReplyDeleteI dont think that the fire fighters are like the govenors because the people make there own choices i mean they have a lot of power to do then others are aloud to do but till they dont controll all of there peolpe. The goverment definetly made them more powerful for a reason but not really to be in charge.
ReplyDeleteThe people are definitely not in control because they are afraid of the firefighters and afraid of reading the books because of what the government would do to them if they were caught with a book.
ReplyDeleteI think that the firefighters have some control over the people but they don't have as much control as a governor would. I think their main power is that people are scared of them.
ReplyDeleteThey have a certain amount of power but they are not necessarily the governors. They have some power but they only have the power to regulate the books. They don't enforce any other laws or make any decisions for the country.
ReplyDeleteI think the firemen are in a way the governers. They were chosen by the government and they keep control of the people and what they read by burning the books. The people are sort of in charge but they choose not to change anything. The government doesn't give them enough information to use their own minds and change things.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the fact tht we look up to our goverment. LIke in my life i can go along years of my life doind my own thing with out thinking of them as a role modle or a like controller.
ReplyDeleteNathan's point that she is high isn't really a misconception. She probably is high, as she is constantly taking pills. The parlor walls are also probably telling her to take many things that aren't good for her but will make her "happy."
ReplyDeleteTo me firefighters do seem like governors because of how much they dictate others' houses and books by just burning them down. The victims don't have a choice, the firemen are just going off their instinct and in result, some people can even lose lives. It's very unfair.
ReplyDeleteThe firemen do not rule other people. They just do what they have done for a long time. Whoever tells the people what to do is in charge. Anything that has control over someone is powerful. The government has taken the control from the people so that no one knows what power is and therefore no one wants it.
ReplyDeleteI think that firefighters are governors in Farenheit 451 because they control peoples lives through fear. They govern over others by keeping them afraid.
ReplyDeleteThe firemen aren't governers. They are law enforcers. I'm late because my wireless wasn't working!
ReplyDeleteI don't really think that the people are in control because it is a communist society so they have to do what the government tell them to. If the people were in control they probably wouldn't choose to burn books. Maybe the people don't really know that they aren't in control because the government has brainwashed them.
ReplyDelete@Courtney: She questioned are we afraid of are government?
ReplyDeleteI don't think we are afraid of our government but we like the idea of having someone else in control. We don't want to make all the hard decisions but we do want to think we have some power. So when going back to the life that Montag and Mildred live in I don't think they are afraid of their government either but they just don't understand it or even try to understand it. They just let things play out based on what the higher power wants.
I think the firefighters are not really either because they have a lot of power but are not really controlling people that much. They have the power to burn books but not to control the people just control some of there actions. Most of the people are scared of the firefighters but they are not scared in general about what will happen if they do something not involving books.
ReplyDeleteI agree that a lot of this book is WAY over put ten wat it needs to be so like the smallest stuff like looking at the sky is taken badley, but hitting and killing a dog is like no b ig deal at all.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Reed. The firefighters are more like police than governors. They do not create the rules they just enforce them. They are not making the laws that are being enforced.
ReplyDeleteWith Madeleine's comment, how is everything blown into epic proportion if it isn't a big deal to hit a bunny? And the spider? Don't those contradict?
ReplyDeleteI don't think the firefighters are the governors of anyone but they have power over peoples lives. They are part of the the government but i don't see how they can rule over people either in Fahrenheit 451 or regular life. The power they have is the decision to let the thing burn or put it out. Or in Fahrenheit, they can choose to not burn the books like Montag, but that doesn't rule over people it just chalenges the system.
ReplyDeleteI think that it depends on how you view power.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Courntey said that in a way maybe Mildred was trying to over power Montag like Lady Macbeth.
ReplyDeleteWho is in charge of the firefighters? I don't think they just woke up one day and decided that books are bad so they wanted to go burn them all. There is probably another person/organization who has authority over the fire fighters.
ReplyDeleteMatt F is Farley. matt f is Fontneau
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily's point. Because of the lack of thinking that goes on in the majority of everyone's brains, there is no debate on whether the government is doing a good job or not.
ReplyDeleteLike Emily M. said, the people don't really worry or have any sorrow over anything. Maybe because they haven't ever had any substantial value in their lives they wouldn't know sorrow either, because they aren't attached to anything accept their programs it doesn't matter to them if a person or something died. Montag was attached to Clarisse and when she dies he is sad but Mildred who couldn't care less, doesn't care. If it was Mildred that killed Clarisse, would that effect Montag very much?
ReplyDeletealso the powers of the firemen in Fahrenheit are based on the government and that isn't mentioned all that much in the book, so we cant be specific of what the life of the fireman is, and there powers. All we know is they can kill and burn if there are books involved
ReplyDeleteInteresting Riley. The gov. put a hitman to kill Clarisse
ReplyDeleteI think that Riley has a point. Since the government had files on Clarisse's family, they knew how they thought about the world and probably eliminated the anomaly that was the McClellan family.
ReplyDeleteFor me when I read a book I really connect to the characters and really get involved with the book. When I watch a TV show I don't really connect with the characters. Because of this I think that books and reading are an important part of developing a respect for life and becausse the society in 451 doesn't have books I don't think they really value life. Mildred talks to her "relatives" and is probably attatched to them but they are never really going to die.
ReplyDeleteNathan brings up a good point in that Clarisse could be the person who wanders into the street and stopped to think about something.
ReplyDeleteI wonder about whta Montag had said in the book about how wars have gone on but no one even noticed, does he mean that the world is so oblivious to things that make them unhappy that they don't even care? So if no one is noticing these wars who is fighting? are machines fighting our battles? And Montag made it sound like just thier country was oblivious to the wars, so what is going on everywhere else in the world??
ReplyDeleteThe government has taken the away the peoples ability to make choices and change their environment.
ReplyDeleteI think that the goverment likes to controll stuff loike peolpe dieiing or fire fighters to keep the community controlled. I lso think that some of tthe characters in this book know wat is going on but dont want to confront it and just go on with there average lifes.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Clarisse is all but a figment of imagination in Montags mind
ReplyDeleteI agree with what courtney said as I believe Mildred is very self-centered and she will do anything to keep her world perfect. An example of this is on page 20, "How long you figure before we save up and get the fourth wall torn out and a fourth wall-TV pu in? It's only two thousand dollars." Montag replies that's a third of my yearly pay but Mildred doesn't care and just wants to satisify her happiness.
ReplyDeleteYes courtney, the people in the book are in a trance set by the government. Will we ever meet someone high in the ranks of government during the story?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily. Clarisse brought out that emotional side of Montag and when she dies he feels that emotion that no one else has. Like in Mildred's case, she doesn't really care about anything else because her state of mind is that she doesn't feel deep emotions that people usually feel when something tragic happens.
ReplyDeleteI think that the government is not mentioned because nobody really knows anything about it. All that matters to them is their on lives and entertainment.
ReplyDeleteI think Madeline is right when she says the Mildred is pesimistic. It seems as if she is always looking towards the negative of things that Montag says instead of agreeing or stating her point nicely
ReplyDeleteDo you think that a lot of the firemen keep books at their houses, or is it just Montag? It would be really easy for them to take the books before burning them.
ReplyDelete@Evan: Clarisse couldn't of been a figment of Montags imagination becuase Beatty had talked about her too. And even Mildred had mentioned her.
ReplyDeleteI agree with aaron's point. things are taken differently in real life than in fiction. In our life something that is taken as a fact can be considered pessimistic and something that is crazy in our world could be considered compleatly normal.
ReplyDeleteMontag showed Mildred the books because he wanted her help to figure everything out.
ReplyDeleteIagree that Montag did think before Clarisse came into the story because he was already wondering wat was in the vent but Clarisses mind definetly opened up way more in Montags mind such a charecters of peolpe end keeping the book that was in the vent.
ReplyDeleteDoes Mildred know the world is a lie? Good job Aaron.
ReplyDeleteI think that the women who he burned alive really struck Montag. He was so shaken and his whole point of view changed. He showed Mildred at this time in the book because he felt that time was running out for him to actually read the book.
ReplyDeleteEveryone keeps talking about the government, but we don't know who they are or anything about them. If they are in charge, do they think(like thinking more than the general public)? If they do why do they continue "brainwashing" the people?
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse's death was kind of ironic. She was a very big thinker and she was the one who needed to get Montag to think again. It seemed that Clarisse was put into the story to open up Montag's imagination and then she completed her task so Ray Bradbury took her out of the story. It is possible that she was standing in the middle of the street or someone did kill her.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Victoria: I think that in the past firemen have had books becuase Beatty spoke of books and other firefighters that had had this issue of "sickness".
ReplyDeleteWhy did Montag take the books in the first place?
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the governtment knows all about their past or do they not know anything just like the citizens? I feel like they wouldn't know that much, because it is illegal to read books how would they know anything.
ReplyDeleteI think Montag took the books out of the curosity that was eating him up inside. Imagine burning books for 10 years and do you think you could keep youself from reading? I would give in after months.
ReplyDeleteEven though the book was written in the 50's, Bradbury was basing the book in the future. So maybe divorce was more common in the time the book is set.
ReplyDeleteYa I agree with Molly. Divorce probably occurs on different sircumstances, if it happensa at all. I would bet that the situations would be different because everything else is.
ReplyDeleteWell about the divorce thing, why would they bother with a divorce? The people don't care about each other anyway so marraige in the first place is pointless.
ReplyDeleteI think that she showed him the book because she is compleatly standard for that society. She does every thing that she is told by leaders no matter what it do or who it could effect. She does not stand out at all and she is compleatly the same as everyone else.
ReplyDeleteSometimes people don't really know what they are losing or missing out on until something bad happen. Usually, people ignore what is essential to life until a tragedy happens. (sorry if this is confusing) Like in 9/11, it took a tragedy that big to bring the country together and unite as a nation. Do you think that if something really horrible happened in Mildred's life she would show real emotion? (this might be a stupid question but you never know until you try it)
ReplyDeletei think he used to love Mildred. but now that he is realizing that he isn't happy he is noticing time got away from him and he just went by each day without thinking about it. Now after meeting Clarisse and seeing the woman burn he has sat back and thought about his life. He sees how Mildred really is and how much he doesn't like it.
ReplyDeletei dont think montag would get a divorce because the way they live is the man works the woman stays at home, where would mildrid go? Is the government against divorce? Also does Montag fear a divorce so he keeps away from it
ReplyDeleteReed is exactly right. He was so curious about the books and had to find out what they said before his time ran out. Montag knew he couldn't keep his secret secret much longer.
ReplyDeleteSo when Mildred found the book she had to make a decision about her life, right then and there. She could of told Beatty about the book but she didn't. So right there she became a part of what Montag had done. I don't think she really even understood it at the time but she had joined Montag in his crazy quest to figure out what everything is about.
ReplyDeleteWhats to fear if you don't have anything to get you in trouble? You shouldn't be scared of someone because of their job.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily, they don't all care about each other, or at least they don't show it. So why bother with a divorce?
ReplyDeleteI think that the people in this society get married and lose their families to live with their new spouse. Clarisse has family but she is young, unlike Montag and Mildred who so far seems like all they have is each other. Mildred has her "relatives" but in that society the "relatives" are just mail ordered entertainment.
ReplyDelete@Sidney
ReplyDeleteI think that is a good question and think you are totally right. I think that if Mildred were to die, Montag would have the reaction of any other husband.
Who chooses the firemen?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBack to the firemen with books, what I meant was like, do you think that some of the firemen, like Beatty or others in his station keep books?
ReplyDelete