Thursday, October 22, 2009

3rd Hour Fahrenheit Liveblog/Fishbowl pgs 41-68

175 comments:

  1. What do you believe is the difference between the society in Fahrenheit 451 and modern day society? Is our society's path heading in this direction? Would it be better for a society to be solely based on technology? (Presenters Question)

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  2. Farenheit 451, the society is much more controlled and similar. Todays society is alot more open then their society.
    Also te people have a lot more say in teh governmetn here.

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  3. No,our society is very different, there is not nearly as much sensorship, also we know what is happening in our society. We also learn things in school, instead of watching movies all day.

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  4. it is inronic that in F451 they cenosr books by burning them, but they seem to be at a war already. It doesn't make sense. If they were in a war they would be experienceing inappropriate things anyway.

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  5. the difference is that the so called "government" has created what they think to be a utopian siciety, which basicly has an unspoken law that its not okay to ask questions or be different in fahrenheit 451.

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  6. I agree with everything everyone above said. Also, people don't burn books, and we definitely don't have battery powered dogs that kill people 24/7.

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  7. I think the main difference between our society and the society in Fahrenheit 451 is the complete control of the people. With all the technology in 451, the people (or most of them) are completely plugged into their seashells and TV parlors, so the government knows what all of them are doing. In our society, people aren't completely addicted to technology, but I think that we are definately headed that way.

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  8. I agree with Ben and Sara, our society does not have that great a level of censorship. We are allowed to know what is going on and everyone does not need to be equal, it is okay to have people who are smarter then others to give us variety and competition. A society soley based on technology would be awful. There would be no simple pleasures in life. Everything would be based on immediate results. Sometimes technology is not so reliable and we should be able to have a greater focus such as family or religion.

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  9. The question needs to be more specific. It is a very broad topic. Everything is different. Everything has changed.

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  10. Adding to what I said - People are just kept happy. The government doesn't want you to think. They just want people to be happy so they don't question what the government is doing...

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  11. i agree with zach, it is very hard to explain with the question that was given

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  12. Suzy: i think that the government censors the books and wat not. Because it is not the peoples idea to burn the books. If it were just something people did without governmental consent, Then they would do something to intervene. The government would not want an anarchy just destroying peoples property.

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  13. The main difference between todays society and the society in Farenheight 451 is the government and knowledge. With the government today we actually know that there is a government, and although they are censoring things, it’s not as intense. I think that our societies path is heading in this direction, I mean, most things you can do with technology now, instead of doing it manually. I dont think that it would be better for our society to be soley based on technology, because then it could turn into Farenheight 451 and that would be a bad thing.

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  14. I agree as well. The discussion need to sget mroe in depth.

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  15. David, I think that the people caused the burning of books, because they weren't being read any more.

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  16. yes i believe our society is headed that way our society today is already completely dependent on technology we already have things like sparknotes its called twitter

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  17. At the time when this was written, there was no internet and no video games. So they don't exist in this book. People today are addicted to things like that but not in the book. Just TV and radio.

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  18. i think we need to get off the topic of what we have today, and focus on the details of the book.

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  19. I agree with Kelly 100%. We're going down that road, and we need to avoid it. Hopefully, people will be smart enough to prevent 451 from happening

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  20. Technology is created a problem for kids socially. People are often listening to ipods instead of learning social skills. People are plugged in and tuned out. This is not a healthy way for teens to grow up.

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  21. I belive that it wouldn't be a good idea if we soley based society on technology because when that happens everyone becomes content with the lives they have so people stop becoming curious and asking questions. If people stop questioning why they do things then people will just not think about it they will just do what they are told. If that happens society might turn into the society of Fahrenheit 451 where the government keeps people ignorant of issues and they never question why something happens happened for a or if it reason.

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  22. Yes Taylor, but Beatty makes a big deal about how the country has to be the same. So the governemtent would intervene. Also, we are talking about irelevent comments not related top the book. We need to get back on topic

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  23. I agree with derek, that it does help us, but is also has a down side. If this continues, everybody will just turn into very very lazy, and nobody will do anything active. (Like Wall-e)

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  24. Facebook can be both positive and negative. One just needs to know how to limited thier facebook usage.

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  25. I agree with Max, and that someday if we allow technology to out do us as humans it could be a disaster. I think that technology is good to stay in touch with people in far away places but you have to moniter it. It can't occupy all of your time. Also I think people are losing the art of conversation, letters and simple things like in the past. I agree with Sara, personal relationships are going down the drain. Time without technology would do us all some good. We do not want our society to end up like the one exhibited in Fahrenheit 451.

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  26. Our society is much much different. The society in Farenheit 451, the government rules everything. They censor everything they dont want people to know. They controll all the technology and tvs. Today is much different. Today we still use books and we actually learn things in school. I do think though that our society today is headed to the society in the book. Our society is becoming more and more technology oriented.

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  27. Cole, twitter isn't spark notes. Twitter is like facebook. Also, I just realized that people probably will accept happy over thinking, so we may go down the path of 451. It's actually really likely.

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  28. I think (as the inner circle does) that technology is impersonal, and it doesn't really help relationships. This is proven in F451

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  29. These facebook comments are not relevent to the reading. We need ot move on

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  30. I think that the main difference between our society and the society in Fahrenheit 451 is the technology, because it is taking over. I think that the technology is even more controlling than the government because the people in the book are always using it. Ray Bradbury is trying to show that if we keep inventing and improving our technology it might take over people’s lives. I agree with Sarah that we are losing relationships because they are developed over technology.

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  31. The emotions in the world in farenheight 451 don't show anyway because people are so boring. Emotions are the same in that world as in text or email.

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  32. (PRESENTERS QUESTION) montag says, "Well, wasnt there a wall between him and Mildred, when you came down to it? Literally not just oe wall, but three!" How has technology createdbarriers betweeen the people in Fahrenheit.

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  33. Derek makes a good point. Sometimes technology can help you make friendship, and keep friendships. The downside is if you only talk to them over text or online, then the relationship won't be as strong. You use emotion differently while texting or facebooking, when you’re talking in real life, its way different.

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  34. I agree with Ethan that it is likely but we should not let it happen. We would become like robots and fully rely on technology. This makes us socially awkward like what Suzy and Ben said.

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  35. i think that although we have different technology and differentt curcumstances, we still have some of the same problems and barriers created by the technology itself

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  36. by using technology we're losing the human element of society i think this is one of the motifs of 451 showing we need to reconnect with people in person

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  37. I agree with Suzy at some degree. Technology is taking over people's lives but I do not agree with what you said however that they forget how to talk to people. I think that has no affect on anything. The technology may make you want to revolve your world around it, but it wont make you socially awkward.

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  38. I disagree with Ethan because we won't go down the path of farenheit 451 because there are so many educated people today. People are informed about what is going on in the world today. The people that read and are educated will never go down that path. They cannot be influenced so easily.

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  39. I disagree Cole, with what i said to suzy i also say to you

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  40. That is the problem in this world and the world in the book. Everyone lacks social skills. People should be making friends in person, not through technology.

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  41. I think that the techology is hampering our ability to make and maintain relationships. When using technology to communicate, it is hard to display emotions.

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  42. Technology created barriers because in F451, people are boring, and they are scared to show their real emotions, so they use technology to share the emotions that aren't even real.

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  43. Agreed with Kelly - To add to that, I've discovered that texting and talking through internet chat is way different from talking. Texts can be taken either to be good or bad, and you don't really know in what context they really mean. Wheras in speech, it's usually clear whether people are talking in sarcasm or seriousness, or whether they're making a joke or being real serious. Text is hard to interpert when dealing with that.

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  44. I think that Derek is right. With technology, we're losing the personal relationships and that's partially related to technology. I think that the people in F451 don't know what happiness is, unless they're asked, like when Clarisse asks Montag.

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  45. The difference between this society and ours is our society can afford to be free and diverse. There are too many people in this society and they realized that can't manage all the people that live in the world if they are thinking in millions of different directions. I don't think that we are heading in that direction yet. We are still using technology to interact with others and develope relationships.

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  46. Again, we are getting too caught up in the little things, in the inner circle.

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  47. communication through technology almost defeats the purpose of communication itself. kind of like what gabby is saying, whats the point of communticating at all if your not showing your emotion and expressign how you feel, when your using I.M. or a "surrogate".

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  48. I agree with the inner circle that technology is very impersonal and it doesn't mean as much as it would. I don't think the people in this town think about their emotions, because Montag didn't even think about it until Clarisse said it.

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  49. The people think that they are happy because they have never really experienced anything else. They don't know any better.

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  50. You can't have happiness without sadness.

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  51. i agree with ethan and david. We definatly need to focus on things other than technology.

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  52. Technology takes away from peoples life, they loose emotion, and dont have adventurous lives. Without technology, kids would go outside for entertanment, and come up with their own games. with technology they are made up for them

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  53. I agree with Laura also. As long as there are educated people we will never go down that path. We have people like Clarisse in our society and this will help us to maintain a more old fashioned status and not be so centered around techonology.

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  54. Sandra is right, people still have emotion, they just don't know it or hide it. There are always going to be rebels and people that actually have a personality.

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  55. Technology has created many barriers between people because people become addicted to things like tv and video games. When people do these things they get into a "zone" where they don't only want to come out of it they will ignore anything goin on in the outside world around them. When this happens someone could be watching tv and someone could be talking to them and all they want to listen to is the tv. They would completely ignore the person talking and go on watching tv. You can clearly see that there would be a wall between the two when one isnt paying attention because he is only foucused on technology.

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  56. The people are weak because they have no sorrow. You really can't experience happiness if you don't know what sorrow is because you have nothing sad to compare it to.

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  57. I agree with Laura, people are so caught up in the fact that their lives revolve around technology that they don't really know much anything else besides tv, seashells, and mechanical hounds. This is what they THINK is fun because thats all they have ever experienced.

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  58. Derek's right - they have no time to feel sadness. They have no emotion. Amazing, never realized that in all the times I read this book. Ben also pointed out that they feel no emotion because they have no good relations. If Clarise died the next day, Montag might feel sorrow, because they had a good connection.

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  59. i agree with ben. motag definatly has emotion and feelings for mildred, its just that they dont have a very good relationship due to the fact that mildred is cought up in the little things......kind of like wht the inner cirlcle is doing now.

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  60. But in the book, it seems as if no one has any emotion, why is this? Did Montag have some emotion and does he still have emotions that he doesn't want to show?

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  61. Derek just said what I said about text!

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  62. It is the goal of every single person to become happy in life. The government has created a way to make everyone happy by taking away the things that make us sad or angry. They have created a utopian society.

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  63. Sadness helps you grow as a person, so terminating it from society is further "dunbing down" the people. This is just as Beatty says, they dont want people to get to a smarter state.

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  64. I don't think that people are losing any emotion, becuase we have non-technology related things to keep our emotions grounded. Think of all the sad things that are going on. I don't think we're going to lose emotion any time soon.

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  65. The people are very involved with technology so they really don't ever think and so they don't experience emotion.

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  66. I think sadness is very important in the society and it makes a person a person. If you were always happy and smiling, people would think you are monotonous and boring. Sadness gives people more personality. But in the book I'm not sure if there is less sadness but also less happiness so people are just kind of there and you can't really relate to them or feel for them.

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  67. I think people are losing their emotions. Guy Montag said he wouldn't even cry if Mildred died. I think the technology is silencing their emotions because computers are almost perfect and they rarely make mistakes because that is how they are programmed.

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  68. i think that every one has emotion. but they have just been taught by society that it is not normal to show emotion and question things.

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  69. I agree with david and laura. They have never experienced anything besides the "norm" so they don't really know what fun is.

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  70. Do people in Fahrenheit 451 have a real family? If they do, why don't they keeep in touch?

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  71. All people have emotion, they just have it on the inside. They feel because the government or everyone else doesn't use or want it, it's wrong so they hide it.

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  72. I agree with what is being discussed. The people in the book don't really understand emotions. They havn't ever experienced strong emotions and the people are scared of their own emotions. So to mask their fear of their emotions and feelings by creating an artifical happiness.

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  73. I still think we are getting way to caught up on the litte things in the inner circle. We need to move to broader topics.

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  74. no i think technology does not make you lose emotion twitter and other social networking sites are all about emotion and and how people use their emotions to see the out side world.

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  75. David made a good point about Montag not caring about Mildred dying. (NO EMOTION)

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  76. Today's socially accepted is tommorrow's socailly awkward... In 451

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  77. I disagree with Laura because just because people have no sorrow doesn't mean that they are weak. It can actually mean that they are stronger then some oother people because they have learned to block out pain and suffering so they can focus and be more efficent in life and in jobs if they feel sad when something bad happens.

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  78. Cole i disagree. Those sites were not made to show emotions. They were made so people can communicate with each other.

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  79. Mildred thinks that she is experiencing love with her so called relatives. It really isn't love because they aren't really real people, they are actors. She would rather "talk" to her relatives because she doesn't want to experience sadness so she just talks to her relatives.

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  80. Is Mildred secretly interested in the books?

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  81. I agree with Kyle. If everyone felt only one emotion of happiness they would never know how to deal with the others. Anger, sadness and all the other emotions would probably freak them out and they would not know what to do. With Mildred she is always so plugged into technology she doesn't really have deep feelings. She is always so out of it and just focused on her "relatives" that she doesn't know how to deal with Montag when he reveals the books.

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  82. We need better, more discussable questions.

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  83. Mildred probably knew that if Montag was caught with the book, the house and the PARLOR WALLS would burn down. She wouldn't have her poor little walls. D:

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  84. Why doesn't Mildred tell Beatty when she finds the book behind Montag's pillow? What does this tell us about her character?

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  85. I don't think so, Kyle. When she found Montag's book. she was mortified that her fireman husband actually had the book. Besides, she was perfectly happy with her seashells and "relatives."

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  86. I agree with Nick. People who have been through worse condtitions are stronger.

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  87. i think that beady suspected that montag took the book. but i also think that because hes the captain, he thinks that its his dutly to know whats in the books and know exactly why he is burning them.

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  88. If she was so quick to try and rat out Montag, then how could they have ever gotten married? How was there any love in that relationship to think that it was a good idea?

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  89. I agree with Kyle, but I also think that all emotions help you grow as a person. Being angry, being happy, or sad, it all helps you grow because you learn more about yourself. I also agree with Lauren that we may get mad at our family more than our friends. We all know that family will be there forever, but friends come and go. In this way, I think we are becoming a shallow nation. People are becoming less and less loyal, and this is shown in the book as well. Its shown through how peoople will tell on other people for having the books. Montags wife, Mildred was about to tell on her own husband for having a book.

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  90. Eric made a good point, all mildred cares about is her things and screens.

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  91. Beatty says that every fireman goes through this "stage", i dont think this is just a stage for Montag. I think this is the beginning of something big for him.

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  92. I agree with Zach. We need to discuss more worth-while questions.

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  93. Are normal people allowed to keep books for 24 hours?

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  94. I don't think that it is that sadness makes a person strong weak. The way that people deal with their emotions is how they show their strength or weakness.

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  95. Does the government decide what goes on the t.v.? Television is basically the same as books, but people are acting stuff out

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  96. I agree with Eric and Zach. Mildred is just obsessed with her technology. She really doesn't love Montag anymore.

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  97. the emotions in a person makes them strong or weak its how they deal with them that makes them strong or weak

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  98. Sandra brought up a much better question - Yes, when one reads books, one usually discusses books, and if two discussers discuss books, their relationship usually grows. Of course, the society in 451 doesn't seem to grasp that concept... So if they read books, they would finally be together, truly and fully.

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  99. "Colored people don't like the 'Little Black Sambo'. Burn it. Whit people don't feel good about 'Uncle Tom's Cabin'. Burni it. Someone's written a book on tobacco and cancer of the lungs? The cigarette people ar eweeping? Burn the book. Serenity, Montag. Peace, Montag. Take yor fight outside. Better yet, to the incinerator. Funerals are unhappy and pagan. Eliminate htem, too. Five minutes after a person is dead he's on his way to the Blig Flue, the incinerators serviced by helipcoper all over the country. Ten minutes after a death a man's a speck of black dust. Let's not quibble over individuals with memoriums. Forget them. BUrn the all, burn everything. Fire is bright and fire is clean."


    Fire is used a as silver bullter, or a fix-all solution in F451. What problems do you see with this? Why are silver bullet solutions often problemtic?

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  100. Alex, TV is new evey day and the government does cotroll it, so it is completely different than books

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  101. i think that in this society, its kind of unspoken that everyone gets married, and you dont necesarily have to be in live to do that.

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  102. Silver bullets don't really exsist, because nothing is really perfectly fixed. Nothing is ever perminately gone, becuause there will always be one person who will defy the "fixing" and then it needs to be "fixed" again.

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  103. I agree with cole. Because if you were damaged in some type of incident. If yo handled in weakly, you would be stronger afterwords. Because sthen you would no what to do if a situation like that occurred again.

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  104. A book is definitely NOT a loaded gun! It is an object of knowing, not a weapon of mind!

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  105. At what point in the world did people start thinking that they shouldn't think for themselves?

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  106. Fire is just an easy fix, to get rid of the physical aspect of the problem but mentally it's still there.

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  107. Silver bullet soultions aren't real soultions. It just covers it up, but when it comes back, it will most likely be even worse.

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  108. i agree with ethans very deep post. haha books are for knowledge.

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  109. no in 451fire is not a fix all solution ou will make enemies if if you burn books if people see that your harming people over the books you will anger others and possibly force them into action against you

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  110. We are denying that we want pure happiness in life. The government has created a happy world, with no conflicting view points. We will say that it's bad, but the second someone asks us what we want in life, we will say "to be happy".

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  111. i agree with christina and joy its almost like theyve been brainwahsed.

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  112. I definately agree with Eric. Even though it is bad, it really is what we want.

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  113. To answer Canyon's question people stopped thinking for themselves when the technology took over and people were to involved to think for then]mselves they just go with whatever the government says.

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  114. I don't think that a book is a gun, but more like tool. And fire is more like a weapon because it destroys the books while the books assist people's mind.

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  115. (PResenter's Question) "ASk yourself, whatdo we want, in this country, aove all? People want to be happy, isn't that right? Haven't you heart it all your life? I want to be happy, people say."

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  116. A happy world? YES that's what I said at the beginning! The government wants you to have FUN so you don't THINK!

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  117. This quote is all about keeping people quite and keeping people happy. When you burn a book that is against one race it keeps them happy. When they do this they weren't thinking about keeping people happy they were thinking about saving their own skin. When people are mad they tend to cause riots and the greater the mentality behind it the bigger the riot. when tehy burn the racist books people are satisfied, but it never ends there they will keep burning things to keep people happy. When people are happy and have what they want they stay ignorant.

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  118. its like a little kids world theve created an instant gratification world

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  119. Eric is so right. Happiness is pretty much all we want in the long run. Say you want to go to Italy. When you go, then you will be happy.

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  120. but like i said before, they would not get bored of the amusment parks because they dont know any different and they think it actually is fun.

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  121. I think, that in reality, most people want domination of their lives. If we're not in control, we don't want anyone in control.

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  122. I agree with Rachel. You can burn the books, but the knowledge is still there. It really is just a temporary fix because I'm sure that the information in the books will ce reproduced eventually.

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  123. The governement does want the people not to read bad things in books. But then why would it make sense to burn the books that aren't bad. I hardly believe they would just burn it just for fun. They must have thought of a reason the was legititmate to burn that certain book. It could have been that they thought even harmless books could influence someone to act in a way like Clarisse did because they were inspired from that book and that would cause differetn people to act differetnly. Which is not what the governement wants. They want everyone to be the exact same.

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  124. Once again, a major goal in people's lives in our society is to get married, have a family, and be happy. The government gave everyone a spouse so that they won't be lonely. It fulfilled our wants.

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  125. Montag is being brought up from his depths of darkness by Clarisse and the old man, while Beatty is trying to bring him down!

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  126. There aren't "good" or "bad" things in their society, other than books. Everyone is only taught to not read books and that seems to be the only real law. No one questions authority really, so that nothing to worry about.


    i think that the kids are "happy" because they have rollercoaters and t.v.'s but the adults i feel may have finally outgrown them, as all people do. In F451, the people are still normal, just overruled by technology. They get tired of things, and things get old.

    Divorce may or may not be acceptable in this society, but they don't know what true love is and so they really don't know if their really in love or happy. Technology makes this happen. I believe they consider love as someone who they can watch t.v. with and get aklong with, so people can fall "in love" with anyone.

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  127. This world is very similar to ours, nobody accepts the different peopel, nor listens to what they say, even if it is true

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  128. I disagree with taylor because some people do not like power. Different people do not like to be in power. Me, for example, i would not like to be in power because i wouldn't know what to do. This is why i would want another person to be in power to make the imporatant descisions for me.

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  129. In our world today we are always striving to be better. and to make our world more improved. We have never considered stopping at a certain point.

    In this society they aren't taught to contribute in the world, just to live in it.

    The world can't become better. No new products or ideas can be made or produced. It's the highest that the world can get. It can't become stronger from this point.

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  130. id think we would need a lot of exposure because when they are differnt they are veiwed as weird and are outcasted. the society of fahrenheit 451 needs more pople in the communtity with different veiws and values.

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  131. Could Beatty be a government robot probe?!

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  132. but by burning the knowledge in books how does your society move forward its kinda like the giver its a regressive socity

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  133. Happiness is wonderful but being happy all the time is not realistic. People will be happy and mad and that is what makes coming back to happy so wonderful. We are completely in control of our emotions and that is what makes us happy. We like control and knowledge and I think the people in this society have forgotten what that feels like because happiness has prevailed.

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  134. The government does want people to be happy i think. They gave everyone a spouse to make them happy, but now they dont actually love their spouse so it didnt really fix the problem.

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  135. Could zach be a government robot probe?!

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  136. what are they talking about?????

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  137. To answer Lauren's question, just look at two five-year-olds playing. If one does something wrong, not 2 seconds will pass before the other jumps up and tells Mommy what Tommy did. It's just the way we function.

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  138. I don't think Beatty is a probe. He may be like undercover in the firedepartment just to moniter the books and how much knowledge the firemen attain.

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  139. Mildred and Montag don't really know eachother because the people don't really have opinions and don't think. I think that Christina is right that people are automatically classified when people meet, and in Fahrenheit 451, because people exclude Clarisse and think that she is weird.

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  140. Blame is just phycological. Like in WWI, at the end they officially "blamed" Germany to punish them. It just creates closure.

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  142. Sara reminds me - relate this on the text: My mother was driving over the speed limit with a group of cars, and she was the only one stopped by a cop because her car was red. The cop told her that most cars caught speeding in a group are red. Why is this? Is red more noticable? RELATE THIS TO THE TEXT!

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  143. Someone said that with only happiness, we wouldn't be prepared for crises, but there are no crises because they have created a perfect world.

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  144. No i do not agreed that Beatty is a robot zach haha. I just think that he is a normal person. He just has all the knowlege since he is the captain.

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  145. I agree with Alex. We need to expand our inner circle discussion.

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  146. blame never solves anything it creates problems thats why noting gets done in politics

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  147. I don't think that Beatty is "normal." He is working for the government, since the firemen are the ones who carry out the gvnmt's bidding.

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  148. They choose their spouse and jobs

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  149. What I meant is - red is a noticable color. Clarrise is a rare case. You usually notice things that stand out and then you take action. Just like that, Clarrise was a target, and red cars are noticable pulled aside.

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  150. I agree with Rachel, happiness in their society has completely taken over. Which in no way is realistic because if everyone is happy all the time they never really get a true feeling for what happiness is or they lost that feeling.

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  151. Thank you Taylor. Maybe not a robot, but a government probe still.

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  152. At any point, will an idealist like Montag become involved with the government? How will this change the system.

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  153. Everyone wants to be happy all the time, though.

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  154. We keep coming back to the topic of "People are happy and brainwashes because of this!!!"

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  155. When reading this, I got the feeling that Beatty and the dog relate in their suspison of Montag. Foreshadowing?

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  156. This is redundant and we aren't going past the text

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  157. We need to get off of the topic of happiness.

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  158. the inner circle needs to move on!!!!!!!.

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  159. Kyle that's a great question! Maybe, if he stops stealing books, he might be elected to president or something. He could influence book burning and intelligence! He could change the story and swing it around to become a very nice thinking place.

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  160. I also agree with Al.ex. We are just regurgiating the same things over and over and over again. we need to focus on the real content of the reading

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  161. Do you think Beatty KNOWS that Montag has that book?

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  162. The "dog" doesn't have a brain, it can't have suspion on Montag.

    CALM DOWN EVERYONE!!!!!!

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  163. Will Montag and Mildred's relationship get stronger with the books? Do the other firemen have books too?

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  164. This is not relevant. It doesn't matter about 'what if'! we dont care what if he got involved int eh goverrment. That is not relevant and that is not important.

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  165. Alright, everyone play nicely.

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  166. My computer wasn't working at the beginning, but I have some other points:

    Once we start censoring something, then there is not stopping it. Who is to decide what is permissible or not? Being able to tolerate different viewpoints is part of what makes us human.

    About the topic of talking over facebook or IM. It was stated that you cannot detect emotion, but it was the same way before computerss. If I sent a letter to someone, not only would it take weeks for me to get a response, but I would not be able to detect emotion in their words either.

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