Monday, October 19, 2009

3rd Hour Fahrenheit 451 pgs. 1-40 Fishbowl/Liveblog

The government creates a norm or trend for society to follow. How does one decide whether it's right or wrong? Does one even question the government? How is this represented in Fahrenheit 451?
-Presenting Group #1

139 comments:

  1. Conscience determines right and wrong. In America, we determine wrong and right by voting. We vote on laws, and once we vote, we think that that makes it right. However, that's not true. If we in America voted to legalize murder, it would be legalized, but that still wouldn't make it right.

    Because we live in a society where right and wrong are determined by voting, NOT conscience, we need to challenge the government. Democracy is about challening the government. We don't need to challenge it illegally, but by standing up for something we believe is right. If America votes to legalize something that your conscience tells you is wrong, you should stand up for what you believe.

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  2. I think that everyone pretty much just does what everyone else does, so they dont really have time to think about it for themselves that what the government is doing might be wrong. No one really questions what is right or wrong, they just follow what te government tells them to do.

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  3. I agree with Suzy that people tend to just follow the government, but the goverment isn't always right. We as people need to learn to think for ourselves, decide what we think is right I wrong. I determine right and wrong by consccience, but someone else might determine it by what the government says. It's dangerous to let government decide wrong and right. We need to think for ourselves.

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  4. To decide if its right or not, people need to think more slowly about things. People in this book seem to go through their life too quickly and they don't think about their own decisions. Therefore, they just go with the flow and follow the trend. If people thought about it they might be able to make a good decision.

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  5. I agree with Zack. Most of the people dont really take the time to think about the way the government runs things. They proably dont know anything different so they really cant question the government. All the people are just following what everyone else does.

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  6. Following the government is a personal decision. Like today, many people say that that agree or disagree with the government. In F451, Clarisse disagrees with the government but she does it in a quiet inconspicuous way. To her this is right, but following the government is not wrong, it just goes against what she believes.

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  7. In Fahrenheit 451, no one thinks about questioning because they dont know what to question. Everything in government should be the the same and everything is moving so fast that they dont realy have time to think, analyze, and question. Everything is more moral government and not a controlling government so its more easy to relate to.
    -MaxH

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  8. To determine whether the government created norm is right or wrong, a person must rely upon their conscience. Unfortunately, some people have a skewed conscience due to previous events in their lives. It is good to question the government. Without questioning, we would never have received independence from Britain. The Civil Rights Movement never would have happened. Everyone questions the government in their own way, whether it aids a viewpoint or not. In Fahrenheit 451, Montag challenges the government by taking a book.

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  9. Clarisse says that people think she is antisocial, but she says she is not antisocial, just curious. She does what other people do not, she doesnt seem to follow the government like other people. Just because she doesnt do what other people do, she is considered to be antisocial.

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  10. I believe that the people have been trained by the government for so long about the govs. right or wrong. So when people like Clarriss are more noticable of what is happening and wants to learn more than the info given to her, therefore she is doing what she thinks is right. She is maybe the one to question the gov. For example her teachers called her anti-social like Joy said, but really is just not following the norm set by the people. Clarrisses uncle sort of influenced Clarriss to think beyond what is shown by the people, and due to what he says, she is more curious about what is right and wrong and what the history of the world is.

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  11. Government has controlled life to the point where people don't believe that they need an opinion. The trend that the government and higher officials set for society is viewed by the citizens as the right way to think and the only way to think. It seems like there are many artifical feelings and experiences made in this highly technological society.

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  12. I believe that someone decides what is right or wrong a lot of the time based on other peoples preferences. When one person decides something is wrong others around them begin to think the same thing, even if it is right. The people who question the government and question different ideas and think outside of the box are the ones who make the decision. The others are the people who follow along with the norm or decide to follow these questioners. In Fahrenheit 451 people don't look closely at how the government is controlling them and making them believe things that are not even true. One example of this is how everyone believes that firemen have always made fires, not put them out. The one who questions things and government, Clarisse, is the one who questions whether firemen used to put out fires. People in the society are for the most part followers. Clarisse is a questioner. I think most people do question the government, but most I think don't take the time to think if whether or not the norm is right or wrong.

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  13. Most people in this society don't even really think about questioning. The majority of the people just listen to the what the government. Even if people do think something is wrong, they don't speak up because the government has convinced everyone that being obedient is being social and normal.

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  14. I disagree with what Eric said about some people having a "skewed" conscience. This is what I think: everyone's conscience is there, exactly the same, but you can learn to tune it out. If you can remember back to the first time that you ever lied, you probably felt horrible about it. That's your conscience. However, we live in a society where everyone lies a lot, so you probably don't feel gulty anymore. This is because you have learned to block out your conscience, but your conscience is still there, telling you what is wrong and right, exactly the way it does for everyone else.

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  15. I do think that because the government sets a norm for when the people are married to act like they love eachother even if they dont.

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  16. I agree with what David said when he was talking about how Montag and his wife dont really love each other, their marriage standard is jsut set up by the government. Clarisse is challenging the system by questioning that, and thinking that she really will find someone she really loves.

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  17. Alot of people seem to like their values more than the government's. Like Clarisse. Sometimes people challenge the government, just to challenge the system.Even if it is wrong, sometimes we have to make laws to help our country, even if it is not right.

    This is representedin Fahrenheit 451 by Clarrise and the Government. The government is making laws that are not right, even when they know it is not right. And Clarisse goes agaisnt the government.

    I also think that Montag is starting to agree with Clarisse. She is questioning his job, and he is starting to realize that it is not right. She is showing him her kind of life, and he looks very interested, and it seems like he wants to live his life like Clarisse. He is just stuck in a shell and is having a hard time breaking out of it.

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  18. In Fahrenheit 451, people don't question the government that often. Clarisse is different, for she wonders and asks questions about the government. You usually decide whether something is right or wrong based on your morale values. If you thought that the government was wrong, you have probably been influenced, at least a little bit, by your friends or family or religion. The more daring ones though have their own thoughts and ideas. Clarisse and her family are some of the more daring ones, for they think and have way different ideas about life than other people.

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  19. There may be different opinions to whether the norm for society, that the government creates, is right or wrong. One may form an opinon, based on their beliefs. If the beliefs of one person agree with what the government set up, than the government may be considered right. If another person opposes what the government has to say, than the government may be considered wrong.
    If your belief in something is strong enough, you would do anything to question the opposing side, or belief. Many people question the government. People everyday question the government, but nobody acts upon their beliefs.
    In 'Fahrenheit 451' this is represented through Clarisse. Clarisse, in this book, is not considered normal. She is considered, crazy, weird, and antisocial. She is considered these things just because she questions the beliefs of others in public, instead of keeping her thoughts private.

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  20. I disagree with what Christina and Suzy said about marriage is a standar set up by the government, at least today in the real world. More and more divorces happen each year, and it's acceptable by social standard to live with people your aren't married to, and then if you find someone else, you can just move on to another person. I would say the government and society don't value marriage at all. It would say in F451, Montag and Mildred stay together because the other one expects the other to love them. Montag expects Mildred to love him, so he tries to love her, and vice versa.

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  21. I agree with David when he says that the people don't have enough time to decide what is right or wrong. They look to the government for this answer, and think that the chosen answer is the best decision. The people of Fahrenheit 451 decide what is right and what is wrong by going on what the government goes by. No one questions the government in this book except for Clarisse and her family because everyone does not look at society closely. Like how if someone is driving by a field, they only see a blur of what is there, not a clear picture. This is representative for the people of the books society, they do not look closely at how their civilization is run, they just go along with the general ideas put down by the government. Clarisse and her family is the only exception to this book. They follow their own trends which is considered very odd in their time. The uncle and Clarrise walk around during all hours of the night, which is considered very strange. The family will leave their lights on, and takl about subjects that no one else would think about in that day and age. This family decides what is right or wrong based on their morals, not the governments. This family questions the government by not following the trend set down by the government.

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  22. When people question the government, there are two forms. One can speak out loud about their feelings, but other work through their problems quietly. Clarisse and her family fall into the second category. They question the government but still go on living their lives in a “normal” way according to their standard. They are questioning the government, but also challenging the system.

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  23. If a person is born into a state of government that may be wrong, they may not question it if they know nothing else. People will follow the system that is in place until they figure out that it can be better, and until they are exposed to other systems. One won't question the government unless they know of a better system. In Fahrenheit 451, mostly everyone follows the system of government despite the government being wrong simply because it is the norm and people know nothing else.

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  24. I agree with what Christina said about Montag just know that they have to love eachother even if they don't because the government has scared them so that they don't have the courage to speak up.

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  25. People may question the government, but they may not speak up about it because the government has told the people that the way that they are living is the norm. So they think that the way they are living is the normal way and no one would think about changing the "norm" in which they are living.
    -MaxH

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  26. I think that someone's morals decide if something is right or wrong. Like what Lauren said, if murder was legalized, it still wouldn't be right, because there are still people who know that it's wrong. I think that there are people who question government. If you look at the White House, there have been dozens of rallies and speeches made, when people express their personal opinions, and they almost never agree with the government. This is going along with our Constitution, when it says that the people have a right to speak out against the government, if the people don't agree with what is going on. I think this is represented in Fahrenheit 451 by Clarisse. Clarisse isn't afraid to talk to Montag about what she thinks, and how her teachers and peers thinks she's crazy. I think that this is Ray Bradbury's way to show a small defiance against the government, since what she says gets to Montag and makes him think about it.

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  27. I agree with David when he says that people don't step back and look for a second. He also makes a good point when he says that Montag and Mildred don't really love each other, but they are too afraid to say the truth. Clarisse is challenging the system by believing in love.

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  28. Most people want to "fit in" with society's norms. Whether or not it is right or wrong doesn't matter. Sure there may be some that question the government, but they could be right or wrong too. For example, I could start protesting for the government to legalize meth, and they may do it, but that doesn't make it right or wrong. Whether something is right or wrong is determined by how society raises us. If I grow up with my parents smoking crack or something, than that will be the norm and I will think that whoever doesn't do that is strange. I may be challenging their society, but they are challenging my society.

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  29. I think Montag could secretly be like Clarisse, and he became a firefighter, so it would be harder for the law to catch him. And Clarisse might be getting Montag to start opening up and become himself in public.

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  30. I agree with Kyle when he said that they were screaming at Montag for a reason. Montag seems like he has something to hide, something he doesnt want the government to know about, maybe books. When the planes are screaming at him, it could be like Montag begining to question his decision to hide whatever he's hiding. He might begin to think about what the government is enforcing.

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  31. I sort of agree with what Derek said about conscience. Even though a person born into a corrupt government system won't know anything else, they still have a conscience. However, that conscience has been buried by their culture and its hard to be able to listen to it when everyone else is going against it. I think it would be hard to keep a sense of wrong and right in a corrupt government when you are only shown one side of things, but it is still possible.

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  32. I agree with Lauren about marriage. I don't think that the government sets a "standard" for marriage. People choose who they marry and they value their marriage. People don't want to get divorces but it happens and everyones choices are valued. I think in the book it is very different because I don't think that marriage and love are valued at all.

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  33. Adding on to what Sarah said, Clarisse and her family don't only just question the government in private. In my opinion, they question the government in public. I mean, sure, they don't go marching down the street screaming their beliefs, but Clariesse questions people just by talking to them. In a sense, that's a way of acting out upon belief.

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  34. The government creates a norm as they suppress knowledge by burning the books and they submerge the people in technology. The general public in this book go by so quickly they don’t take notice to anything, yet Clarisse thinks for herself and tries to take life slow. One decides whether its right or wrong based on their personal beliefs, and it is also based on whether they have the strength of character to go against the government. Most people in Fahrenheit 451 go along with the system the government has set because they can’t think for themselves. The people in this book are not required to think about anything and they are so absorbed with themselves and unimportant things like Montag’s wife who only cares about getting more and more technology. I think she is constantly submerging herself in technology like the seashells and the TV’s because she is really not happy with her life and she needs to find a way to escape.

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  35. I agree with Kyle in the sense that the government is watching Montag. I also agree with Erika because I think Montag is hiding books. He know what will happen to him because his job is to destroy other houses so who would destroy his. He is going against the government because he is representing the two sides of human behavior. The one side where one wants to trust his own government, but also wants to know for themselves.

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  36. Father/Daughter relationship??

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  37. I completly agree with what Luc said about Montag because he thinks that if he is a firefighter he could read, and secreatly hide the books.

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  38. I agree with David about the jets. I think that the jets are maybe just there as a distraction, so the people think that there is something that is going on when there really isn't. I also think that because of the discussion with Clarriss, his perspective of burning books has been changed and he is curious about how books are useful or why he burns books. I also think that lucs comment could be true and it might be likely that since Montag was always like Clarriss, he can now start to show it because he isnt the only one with those veiws.

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  39. I don't think that society should determine right and wrong. Society can be easily corrupted. Like Eric said, people just want to fit in. If everyone lies, does that make it right? If everyone murders, does that make it right? No. In American, we like to think that the majority is right, but the minority can be right also. If you determine right and wrong by voting on it, you can create some huge problems.

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  40. I agree with what Cole said about Clarisse being the catalyst for Montag because even though his job is the firemen he still has the curiosity to keep a book and read it. When Clarisse brought her optimism to Montag he really got the urge to keep a book.

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  41. I agree with what David said about how consumed humans become in their work and often forget about how to think, and how to voice an opinion. This very modern society has no curiosity and is dictated by structure and rules. This society seems to have taken away human freedoms and they no longer have an purose to live for.

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  42. I agree with Cole and Luc in that Montag may have had radical thoughts himself, but Clarisse simply made him realize these thoughts,and made him start to question the system that is in place in his community.

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  43. To go off of what Sandra said, the government wouldn't value love, because love causes people to do stupid things, and the government probably would fear a bunch of crazy people wanting change, and the government would not want to let their power to be turned over to the people.

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  44. The people don't question the government they just have followed the norm for so long that they are used to it. Clarice doesn't go with the norm because she is an individual and Clarice was the one that changes Montag to go against the norm. Clarice questions the government and is not afraid to share her point of view. Clarice is the one that influences Montag for the better. The war is symbolical for the town's struggle against their government because the people want to keep reading books. The government cannot try to keep the people ignorant. The people will eventually overcome the government. Montag is hiding the books because he is curious about the books and what is inside them. Clarice influenced him to take the books so he could read them. Since Montag works for the government it will be hard to catch him reading because the government trusts him. Clarice sparks Montag's thought's to start reading the books he takes.

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  45. I think that Montag is beginning to view Clarisse more as his daughter then just as a friend. I think that she is teaching him about how his life could be without the government, and he doesn't want to let go of that so he begins to become closer to Clarisse as she questions the government.

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  46. I do think a father daughter relationship is forming. I think Montag wanted a kid but his wife didn't so they never had a child. I think he opens up more to Clarisse than any other person. She opens up to him as well. I think this is a special kind of bond only a child and father could have. I also think that Montag almost "looks up" to Clarisse. Yes, she is younger, but she has insight that I don't think Montag knew anyone could have. Its like when your child teaches you something new.

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  47. Arika makes a good point. Montag will lose his job if he hides books. He goes out every day and burns a house with books in it, and he has no idea whose house will be next. He is being a hypocrite by burning books and houses with books within, while he is hiding books in his own house.

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  48. I think that the gvernment probably did take her because they see that she is her own person. She has her own mind and she doesn't think like evryone else does. She is in conrol of herself and the for some reason the government has no control over her. And like Alex said, how do we know they even have a government? Is their really a government??

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  49. I agree with zach, the government has turned the people into machines. They do not really have lives they just act like bots, and the people who arent are punished.
    I agree with Kyle also, if the system get corrupt then everybody else will think it is ok.

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  50. It seems to me that the government wants to keep the people ignorant with the earbuds, viewing screens, etc. The less the people question, the better society will be. Government rules with fear--FIREMEN.

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  52. I agree with what Sandra said about Montag and Clarisse having a father/daughter relationship. It seems like Montag would want kids, but his wife is too consumed with technology and too busy to even consider it. Clarisse is the only person Montag can really talk to. His wife doesn't seem to want to talk about anything except a new "viewing scree". Clarisse will talk to him about his inner feelings, the things that will really bother him.

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  53. I think that if the hound is in the firehouse to keep watch on the firemen, then something must have happened in the past, that caused them to put the hound there. The hound reacts to Montag differently then it does to others. Maybe Montag is hiding something, or maybe the hound just senses something that is a little bit "off" about him, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is hiding something.

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  54. Beatty knows a lot of literature, he says that this is because he is a fire captain, however I disagree. As Montag starts to doubt and question the government after meeting Clarisse, he wants to learn more about the books. Beatty must have at one point doubted the system also and wanted to know what happened. Maybe he also has questions but according to his status in the government he isn’t allowed to ask them.

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  55. To add on to what Suzy and Sandra said, there is a father-daughter relationship forming. He is starting to "listen" more. Now Montag is starting to think about Clarisse’s ideas, and starting to believe them. I think that he will start to fight the government later on.

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  56. I think there is a goverment, but it is not very strong. I think that the goverment could be taken over and thrown out of power. The government trys to run on fear and a no questions asked policy. But if for some reason there was a riot I believe the government could not support its self.
    -MaxH

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  57. I agree with what Mrs.Moritz posted. The government isn't allowing people to think in this book. When viewing screens are put in front of you and earbuds put in your ears you don't have anytime to think. You have all of this other activity going on in your brain that you can't think for yourself which I think the government is trying to do.

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  58. I agree with that the government is trying to keep people ignorant. If they are consumed with technology, they have no time to think, and this keeps them ignorant. Ignorant people do not think, and therefore will not question the government. The government will be able to rule without fear of an uprising, because no one THINKS enough to start an uprising. If people don't think, they won't ask questions. They will go along with the government, no matter what the government does.

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  59. I think that the government regulates what people see. They dont want people to know what it was like before, when firemen put out fires instead of starting them. That is why they burn the books. They might contain information from the past. The government probably thinks that if people found out, they would protest the current methods and change the ways of living. The government probably controls the media. The televisions are controlled by them and so the people only see what they want them to see. They dont want people to ask questions either, because that is the perfect utopian society, where nobody fights and everbody is content with watching their televisions and listening to their iPods.

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  60. There seems to be a relationship between Montag and Clarisse. I agree with the statement Luc made when he said that Montag might be like Clarisse. Montag seems to be the "oddball" of the firemen, and he seems to care about how society is run. Montag is always wating for Clarisse, ready to listen to her while everyone else just passes her by. He takes what she says to heart, questiong the other firemen if at one point firemen stopped fires instead of creating them. The hound in the station is there to keep track of the firemen, and I belive it almost attacked Montag because it suspected that he is becoming more like Clarisse as he talks to her. After his conversations with her, Montag seems to see that it's really not as strange to think about the kind of things Clarisse does. In a way, Clarisse is teaching Montag how to break out of the cycle of following the governments every rule.

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  61. I agree with the government is giving what they want, except they are telling people what to want as well.

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  62. Zach makes a good point about how people have rights, but they are too distracted by the new technology to really use and cherish those rights.

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  63. I agree with what Katie said about the message of the book. I think Ray Bradubury is trying to tell us to watch out for the progression of technology as it could lead to our society's destruction. The farther technology advances, the more distracted we become with it, and the less people have to think for themsleves.

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  64. I agree with Sandra. I do think that a father/daughter relationship is forming between Clarisse and Montag. Clarisse has some sort of quality that Montag never knew exsisted. She is independent and can think for herself, unlike the majority of the society in this book. Many people would frown upon Clarisse for her independent mind, but Montag finds this interesting. Only a father, or other family member, in the society in this book, could understand and would want to form a relationship with someone like Clarisse

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  65. I think that it is expected that the firefighters are to keep an eye on each other and keep each other in check. They are supposed to make sure that none of the books are kept, and none of the other firefighters read the books. However, if all of the firefighters were united and all decided they wanted to read, it seems there is little that would be stopping them.

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  66. I agree with Joy about wanting more and more technology when you get so immersed in it you begin to rely on it. Maybe it is the same way that people view books, maybe thats why the government banned them, because people begin wanting more and more. Maybe thats why people who's houses get burned die with their books because they rely on them so much and can't imagine life without them.

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  67. To disagree with Max, I think the government is very strong. These people (or machines) are controlling every aspect of these people's lives, from what they learn, to what they do, to what they can say. This government seems like an unstoppable force, that won't be stopped unless it is taken down from within.

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  68. I agree with Nick, they are just distracting them with stuff that seem glamorous. I think that the people that i would suspect the most for having books, are the firefighters. Because they are not distracted,they know what is going on, unlike the pople, and they are pretty much the government, without the government's aspirations.

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  69. I also think that Montag and Clarisses relationship is very father/daughterly. I think that they have a lot of the same veiws on stuff and Montag truly wants kids, but his and his wives relationship is maybe fake and she doesn't want to bear his children. I think that Montags wife is a perfect example of the set up for the government to make people ignorant. Like the kids all have ammusing classes and maybe pointless classes because they don't want the kids to get smart enough to have there own opinion. I agree with Kyle about the youth being the future but they are just makingthem stupider.

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  70. By using ear buds and viewing screens, the government sensors what the people hear and see. They control the people and make them think what the government wants them to think. They make them think they are just about having fun and learning less and less. This way the govenment will always have control over the people.

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  71. I don't agree with Kyle. I don't think that the kids opinion was put into the government. The government doesn't want people to think in this book. They aren't learning anything and that is keeping them from thinking. They don't want people to learn because the government doesn't want people to question them. I don't think they based the school off of what kids want though.

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  72. In response to David, the government is teaching you what THEY want. They are teaching the youth what to want in life and what to not want. If kids don't read books in school, why should they ever want them? They have a tv class, so when they graduate, what are they going to think they need? A tv.

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  73. I agree with Alex. If the new generations are not educated, they won't ask questions about the government. There is probably somebody in the government that wants to stay in power.

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  74. Well the children don't really need to learn. When the government controls everything nothing is needed of the people.

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  75. Ray Bradbury's purpose in writing this book is to show how deeply involved in developing a perfect society we can become that we soon forget how to be human and that flaws make life interesting and worth living.

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  76. How do people know what really happened before they started burning books, if all the history books were burned. How do they document what happens if they can't have books? Does the government have books that know one knows about?

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  77. I agree with Taylor. The government is completely controlling everything about the society in F451. You have to be strong to do that. The government has perfected their system so well that few people will even question it. Clarisse and her family are the only characters who question the government. No one else questions the government.

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  78. I agree with Alex in that the way the school system is set up is to keep the youth ignorant. They want to keep people ignorant so that they don't question the government.

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  79. I don’t think that right or wrong can really be decided because it is more of an opinion. However; in this case, the government seems to detract the people what is really going on behind the scenes. And if the people are happy, they are less likely to ask questions. And I agree with Alex, that the society never learns anything new, so in a way, no one is progressing into the future and the development of society has come to a halt.

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  80. Like rachel said if the kids have things like tv teaching them and amusment parks daily they have nothing to question. As long as the people are happy their will be no rebellion from the people.

    Do they have a secret stash of books that only people in the government know about? If they dont have books how do people know what to teah the youth? what exactly are the kids supposed to be learning if their is nothing to base it off of?

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  81. Because the government can control everything that people learn, they plant seeds of ideas. It seems that they let some people learn, but the information that they are exposed to is only what the government wants them to learn and what the government can benefit from

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  82. The government is so scared to lose power, so they give the people all the new, "awesome" technology to keep them occupied and to keep them from questioning and being smarter than the government.

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  83. I agree with Alex when she says that the government put viewing screens in school and lets them ride rollercoasters to put a check on childrens intelligence and potential in life. They government does not want the children to become more powerful than the government. This is also why the government decided to ban books, and to burn any house that is in possession of any book. Books teach us about history, and may even give us insight to how we should run a better future, but the government is shielding this knoweledge by burning books, making decisions for society, handicapping some people that challenge their power (such as Clarisse and her earbuds), and in this way the goverment believes that society is a utopia and has no need for change.

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  84. The goverment can control what people know. The government wanted the people to know about how books were burned, but they might not want people to know about democracy in our age of time.
    -MaxH

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  85. I don’t think that one would want to question the government because it has been that way for a while. The people (agreeing with Suzy and Zach) don’t really take the time to think about daily life and the world because they are surrounded by technology like Montag’s wife. Clarisse’s family, in a way, challenges the government and the way daily life has been formed because they decide to sit around and talk and be social with each other.

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  86. How did the people in the government know what to do about all this handicapping and such?

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  87. I agree with Mrs. Moritz's post. The society is trying to make people ignorant and distracted. I agree with what Nick said about how the government is trying to keep the public from learning anything new. The government is always going to want to have the power to make every decision. The government has always wanted to have more power than the people, and by the technology being so advanced, the people are always distracted and like Sandra said, they have no time to think.

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  88. The government isn't allowing the people to read so that they can stay ignorant. If the people don't really know what's going on in the government they won't question it. If all they do is watch tv they won't learn anything. Since the people don't have proof you don't know that Ben Franklin started burning the books. They just told the people that and they have to believe it since the government told them that. Bliss is ingnorance because the people are happy with their lifes but they really don't know anything about the government's true agenda. The goverment wants the people to stay ignorant so they can control them no matter what.

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  89. I agree with Kyle because as long as the kids do what they want to do, they will stay busy and won't question. Also when people just watch tv all day and do what thy want without learning they won't ever become smart enough to question the government and that is what they want. Is there a samll amount of information that the government allows everyone to know because how do all the people kn oow about Benjamin Franklin. Also how do all of these government officials know what they know and how did they get elected?

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  90. What Zach said about how government will eventually not be needed i can see completly.
    -MaxH

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  91. I agree with Amanda. The government believes that they are at an era that can never be surpassed. They are not "educating"(by our standards) the youth in order to keep people from questioning the government. They think that if people do challenge the government, then the society will crumble into disorder and it won't be civilized.

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  92. I have a question about 'Fahrenheit 451'.
    How are the Firemen finding out about the books that are being hidden?

    If they are going through people's houses, or spying on people, isn't that an invasion of privacy?

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  93. Alex brings up a good point about how the choose the new leaders. The people are very obedient and do whatever the government tells them to do. They all are relatively equal. If the people elect their leaders, how do they make a choice? They don't have choices everyday, so when they are actually able to make a choice how will they make the right one?

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  94. I think that the government in F451 is assumed. It a powerful force that isn't mentioned because we as readers assume that someone has to be in control. Someone had to start this new society, so at some time there had to be a government, or some group of people, who began this new society.

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  95. I think (Mrs. Moritz) that there is a government, because there has to be at least one person who regulates what goes on, and who can put fear into people to have such control. It may be a person, or it may be a computer. I don't think we know.

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  96. Books are viewed by government as opinions. And if citizens of the country see all the different options then they will start questioning the system. This will ruin the eutopian society set. By burning books they burn away knowledge of a different way to think and behave.

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  97. There is a government because why else would the people be burning the books if no one was forcing them to burn the books.

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  98. I have to disagree with Joy about the writing of a rule book because i think the rule book is just a fake entity maybe that the govt. just adds onto whenever they need to to make society "better".

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  99. I think that there may not be a government. This is because by now I think the people and their society are used to the way things have been for so long. It may just be a mindset of the people.

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  100. In the society of Fahrenheit 451, books being destroyed almost destroys history and destroys the past. Written documentation is one of the greatest sources of historical information, and that information is being destroyed. People are ignorant of the history of their society and the history of the world. They don't know how society used to function, and that the current society is wrong.

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  101. If technology is smarter and more productive than the human mind, then who is getting the benefits of what it is doing?

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  102. I think we are getting too caught up in little minor details. In the society of F451, they read tabloids and magazines. However, I don’t think the government is concerned if they are allowed to read ‘Books’, but I think they only want to control the information that the people can read.

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  103. What do people define as books? Who judges what a book is?

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  104. I think that Alex brings up a good point about what is a book? Is it something with a binding, like she said, or is anything with writing a book? Somewhere, there has to be something written down, because the government officials can't just keep everything in their heads. I would guess that the government doesn't have a problem with books, the just have a problem with citizens or civilians OWNING and READING the books. Books aren't the problems, its the information and the opinions in the books that might prompt people to challenge the government that is the problem.

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  105. That is a good point by Katie how do they know how to read. Is there anything they ever need to read? Is there anything that is needed to read? Do they need to read manuals or directions?

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  106. Why do they only burn books if you can write down the same thing and just call it writing. I don't understand why books are so bad but a piece of paper with writing would not be considered bad.

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  107. What made these people hate books so much that they want to burn them now?

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  108. I am confused what the difference between books and talking, all books are is people talking on paper.

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  109. I was wondering how long the society has been around and how it started. And i think it has been around for long enough to see this as the "norm" but not so long to were no one can tell how it started. For example the older people in the society were around when things started to change.

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  110. I think (to answer Canyon's question) that the people are getting benefits from this new technology, even though the technology is smarter than the people who are getting it. I mean, we benefit from creators of Google, and they're much smarter than us.

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  111. Even if the government fell apart, there would still be a government. Someone would have to strike fear in peoples’ minds, and tell people what to do. Although there might not be a "real" government, someone is still enforcing the laws.

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  112. I feel like without books, the past may be all lies. Like Derek said, the books are the best resources and most reliable. If you burn books, you destroy the past. What people think of their past may be all lies, if they even think about that at all.

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  113. The government burns "books" to keep the people from thinking outside of their lives. A fantasy questions the government by saying "what if...". A history piece questions it by saying "These citizens made society better".

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  114. Books are whiped clean from society. so that only the views of government can be viewed.

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  116. Adding on to what Kelly said, if this government fell apart, some new person would jsut sieze power. There are people in society who are natural leaders, and when called up to lead, they will. If a natural leader, or just anyone who is really power hungry, saw an opening for power, they would take it, even though motives might be different. There will always be someone to lead.

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  117. I think to see if its a book it depends on the content, not on the appearance.

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  118. I agree with what Sarah said.
    The government doesn't want people to not read, they just want to limit the information they obtain.
    I know this isn't the best example but in the Catcher in the Rye, Holden is messed up. He drinks and smokes, etc. If a younger kid were to read that book, they may think it was okay to drink and smoke. That would let the younger generation start forming different ideas, and those ideas may eventually one day over-throw the government.

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  119. I agree with Ian, without history books, one has no way do decipher the truth from lies. Without a true source of information people can make up information and say it’s the complete truth.

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  120. I think that a book is something that expresses an opinion, that not all may agree with, but that someone is brave enough to put it out. I think that that's what the government is afraid of: people who are brave enough to defy them.

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  121. Why would the hound be brought up in the book? I don't really see any comparison with the hound with anything else, to me it just shows that they are so reliable on technology that the pets are even robots.

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  122. Well even thought the government burns books at this time in the book, what made them decide not to give people things to think about. Who gets to decide that books are banned? At our time right now people have freedoms that got taken away in this book. Who decides that?

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  123. The people are ignorant because if they don't know their past they really don't now right from wrong. They don't know what kinds of governments are good and which ones are bad.

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  124. What differenciates a book from a packet of writing from a magazine? Why is it that only books are banned? The people of the society had to learn how to read somehow, and so they must've read something sometime in their past.

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  125. Yeah, I agree with Gabby and Sarah also. I think that the government has some way to obtain information, because they are obviously more educated than the people. They don't want the people to get that knowledge, because in this society knowledge is power.

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  126. The hound represents an all knowing being, willing to kill anything that wants to upset the 'system'.

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  127. Are there other worlds outside of this society that believe that books are okay, and have freedoms for the people?

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  128. I agree with Arika on how the Hound might be the government watching the society. And when one refers to a Hound, one might think of aggressiveness and fear. In this way animals have a huge symbolism.

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  129. I think there is a fine line in the society of Fahrenheit 451 between what literature is allowed and what is not. Of course, something directly criticizing the government would not be allowed. If the government starts to allow simple, informational books, this would slowly evolve into opinion generated, influential stories that would lead people to question the government. That is why all books need to be banned, instead of by a cases by case basis.

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  130. Adding to what Taylor said, a book expresses an opinion, or has some sort of meaning beyond the text. The meaning beyond the text and the opinions may be what people are afraid of. They want everyone to be equal, and want everything to run smoothly and according to plan.

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  131. Christina, I think that we will never know if there are other societies that allow books, but there has to be someone else, since a war is about to happen.

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  132. There is nothing in Ray Bradbury's world to live for. No options to be happy, no way to seek your own joys or desires. What purpose do people have? Did they burn the bible too? Because voicing your opinion and being free is supported by the bible.

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  133. I disagree with Laura because I dont think that everyone in the society is happy because of their ignorance. An example is Montag, after Clarisse asks him if he is happy, he realized that he really is not that happy with his life. I also dont think that Mildred is happy with her life because she tries to submerge herself in technology so she doesnt have to think about it. I dont think everyone in this society is happy because their lives have no real substance, and although they dont know what that substance is, I think some know something is missing in thier lives.

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  134. The government can sway the people to make them believe whatever the government wants them to believe since the people are ignorant and they believe what they are told to believe. The people are totally brainwashed because they don't know any better.

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  135. Well with the history book thing, how do we know that the text book is the truth? It may just be one person's view on something. There's always more than one point of view to a story.

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  136. Finish up and shut down your computers. :)

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  137. TO respond to Laura's, it is not their fault that they are ignorant and dont know their past. They believe what they were told, would if our government was feeding us all lies... would we be ingnorant?

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  138. I think the hound just symbolizes how technology is made to seem friendly. They could have just made a machine that catches and kills rodents, but they gave it the faint shape of a hound. They gave it this because once upon a time, dogs were man's best friend and were "protectors".

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  139. How far does this controlled society extend? Is it a small city or the entire world?

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