I agree that all of Cory Doctorow's technological facts are correct. You can't create stuff like that up and connect them to real things.
I agree with what matt said. it would be very difficult for Doctrow to make this up in this kin of detail.
I think that one day we could be close to the technology take over. But our president won't allow us to be watched 24/7 because he understands how much we fighted for our freedom. We may be close to a technology takeover but the government would have to stop it in my opinion
I think that a company or political or terrorist group could definitly create a large enough network to dominate our country through technology. However, I think that it would not last very long because there would always be someone or some group that could find a way around being tracked or listened to like Marcus and the other Xnetters have with the DHS.
I think that Cory Doctrow did his research before he wrote this. It would be very hard to make up technology in this kind of detail. He also even called the new act Patriot Act II after the 9/11 Patiot Act.
i think that it's totally possible for this to happen. The government can already do most of the stuff that is in Little Brother, but they are just not using it the same way. I think because the government keeps getting more powerful, this could happen eventually.
I definitely agree the technology is there that is the reason why we were shown the robotic eye and all those crazy tools.
the possibility of a technological take over in our time, in my view isn't going to happen because it costs a lot of money and many people don't have the money to afford all of it. also there's bound to be a technological halt in some point in time.
The technology we have today would allow this to happen. The technology they have in the book isn't much more advanced then the technology we have today. Being able to track people with the subway cards is a technology that we already have available to us it is just not in use.
A technological take over is definately possible. But like they said we would have to have something big happen (like the bridge blowing up)to possibly have that start.
I dont think that technology could take us over. Yes it is powerful but our government has the checks and balances system to stop one from having more power than one and they cant watch us on a 24/7 basis.
I agree with Maddie, in the sense that most of the adults and older people believed theat what the government was doing was for the better. The people that are okay with the way that the DHS uses its authority, really don't care about what the cost is. They are willing to give up thier freedom for safety.
@ LinseyS:Who says it's not in use? Maybe it is, and it very well could be, and the government just isn't telling us that we're being tracked because it could cause protests.
The people have no control in this book even though they live in America which is supposed to be free. Some of the citizens feel it is their duty to enforce the law and do everything they can to try and find the terrorists but they are just sacraficing their rights.
the idea of a technoology takeover is possible but i find it hard to believe. We have our government set up so that we are not put under just one persons control. That's why we have checks and balances i mean i'm sure the government in the book is just scared but someone has to be thinking logically about the technology takeover.
the rebellions compare through all the young people supporting the opposition. they fight through music and at concerts. Mass gatherings.
I think the only similarity between Marcus's rebellion and the rebellion against the Vietnam war is the act of thinking that went on inside both side's heads. This thinking was composed of large opposition and disbelief to the other side's ideas.
@torinI agree I think that the majority of the people in the society are more concerned with finding the terrorists than keeping their rights as Americans. They care more about long term safety then the rights that they've given up. But will they ever get these rights back?
@Mollie,So the government isn't using the technology now. What's to stop them in the future if all the branches of government agree to that it might be a good idea to use the technology?
I agree with Matt Farley that the citizens are too enveloped in fear to think clearly. They have decided out of fear that it is okay to sacrifice their rights for a sense of security.
@ Nate KI agree with you, the guys who came into our class to explain all the technology said that they have the ability to do that currently. They just don't use it the way they do in the book.
I don't think Marcus's rebellion is very similar. Granted he is trying to fight the government but also he is not being quite as extreme as the people from the 60s were. everything he is doing is anonymous and he is using technology instead of word of mouth and free speech. The one part that parallels is the "don't trust anyone over 25" concert. This was similar to what happened back then.
i think the concert does make a difference because being arrested and pepper sprayed with liven up more hate towards the government and just spread this rebellion.
marcus's rebellion is doing some good, but when you think about everything he's just causing problems for the citizens. sure it's effecting the DHS but it also is messing up things for innocent civilians.
They won't lose their rights because everyone realizes what is happening and how the DHS is being very incompetent. If the DHS never captures any terrorists the normal people will realize that these "investigations" are not legit at all.
Talking about a starting incident, does anyone think that the bridge and B.A.R.T. were blown up by the government so they could take complete manipulative control over San Francisco? Does this relate to 9/11? Has this already happened in real life?
I agree with what Ben was saying. The people will get used to the hightened security measures, and they will almost just become routine. Once they get used to the security, they won't really have a problem with it anymore. It will just be a part of how they live.
@Emily K There will always be those few people that won't agree to use the technology, I mean after all it would be them being watched as well and I'm sure they wouldnt want that anymore than anyone else.
I think that once the citizens give up their rights for "temporary safety" there is no going back. They have allowed the system of being watched and controlled by their actions to take over and to get your rights back is not possible.
I disagree with Ben, though people may realize that the DHS are taking precautions to the extreme, but because they are so pleased by the fact that they have safety, they don't realize that their rights are being taken away. The view of safety sweeps over the though of their rights.
I agree with Evan because if I was in Marcus's shoes i would just be even more livid.
@Reed- this could be possible but someone has to be thinking past the fear that has set into the people of San Francisco.
@tori"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. "- Benjamin Franklin
I think that Mrs. Galvez was pretty nuetral but when the students argued contrevercialy the securites people decided that she had to go.
I don't think so Reed. Our government isn't that radical or extreme, it knows its limits.
@Reed: Yes that could have happened, but do you really think the government would sacrifice so many lives in order to protect the rest of the country? Would they have gone that far with the interrogations and holding so many people if the government was the one who did it? It could just be a cover up but would they treat him that badly if they did it?
I agree with what matt had said about how little brother is becoming similar to 1984. The government is slowly becoming a totalitarian government and they are soon afraid to speak their mind and afraid to have different opinions.
the government doesn't want to be overthrown because of beliefs that are "radical"
@ReedI don't think that the government would go to that great of exxtremes just to have better control of the people. If word of that ever got out, the government would get in so much trouble with the people. The lives lost would not be worth some extra security if it was done on purpose.
@will-but if our counrty know's its limits why did cory doctorow and george orwell feel the need to warn us about our governments possible future??
@ LinseyLives are expendable to the government. It could just be a distraction for something bigger that is coming or is already happening.
@LinseyThe DHS really did not torture Marcus. The worst they did was tieing a bag over his head and handcuffing his wrists and legs.
Does this have anything to do with the freedom of speech? Like Moritz said, we can't always talk about everything freely. Doctorow was just pointing that out.
I agree that the government is sort of becoming like 1984 , but i dont agree with zoe that they may be afraid to speak. I think marcus will always speak his mind and do what he really feels.
@ BrandonTechnically it was a form of mind torture but was she referring to Guantanamo Bay victims of today?
Is the DHS tracking other people like Marcus? Do you think that they are tracking everyone, even those who they don't really have a reason to?
Doctorow had this part in the book to show how you can learn from someone's else point of view and consider both views.
@emilyk- I agree. We do have freedom of speech but it is limited in certain envirnoments.
I agree with Reed, what the DHS did to Marcus was definately torture. Not that much physically, but mentally and emotionaly for sure.
@ReedYes, it was a mind torture but it really wasn't a severe kind of mind torture. It was a very mild type.
@BrandonI think the DHS did torture Marcus. There wasn't a ton of physical abuse, but there was a lot of mental abuse. There is a prison in CO called the Supermax (Alcatraz of the Rockies) and people there have said that even though they think it is the safest prison in the world, people still go crazy in their because it's isolation perfected. That's kind of what happened to Marcus.
@emilym- yeah of course the government is tracking everyone that's why people are getting pulled over all time. because they follow they're ''fastpasses'' and know where they have been and what they have been doing.
Cory Doctorow is trying to have us realize that we are not always questioning the things the government is telling us. They might say something and if you do not question it you are trusting they are doing the right thing and being honest but they might not be. Just as the people in the fishbowl said the government tells us we have nothing to worry about but truthfully they might know something we do not.
As to Matt Farley's question, I really feel that Mrs. Galvez was againt the methods of the government, because the way she was talking about the hippies, rebels, and how their motive could be supported. So, because Mrs. Galvez is the teacher and works for the government she should be agreeing with the government, not giving the students the options to believe views against the government. Basically, if they have discussions, the students will learn more about the issue and the governemnt, etc. . So, the more we learn, the more we are aware, and I feel that is he best way to be safe, if we are aware, not if security measures are increased.
I agree with laura this is shown in mrs. Galvez's class with the arguement between Marcus and Charles.
instead of tightening security and playing the role of defense why don't we take action and take offense. (and not be involved a conflict in Afghanistan-be more offensive.)
@ BrandonTorture is torture. No matter the severity.
@Brandon:I never said they tortured them. But they gave him a reason to try and stand against him. They gave him a reason to hate them. They could have avoided a lot of trouble caused by Marcus.
No I don't think the terrorists will attack again in the book, but I do think they will definitely come back. They could quite possibly be, as Reed said, the government, but that's a stretch.
I think that Corey Doctorow will have the terrorists attack again to show Marcus's point that although all these security measures still don't make them safe.
The terrorists may attack again because they've already done it once so why wouldn't they be able to do it again. If marcus can get through the government terrorists could. The terrorists don't need a reason to blow something up.
@ZoeWhat can they really learn from the "fastpasses" though? They may be able to track their subway habits, but can they really learn anything else from it? They really can't tell too much about what the people are doing.
@ Tori,I totally agree. I think Doctorow wrote Little Brother to show us that sometimes we do need to question the government.
I agree with Casey. All that Marcus has done to the city could definitly be classified as terrorism.
I agree with reed, i dont think there should be a rating of the torture it is all torture and has its effects.
a terrorist doesn't have to be someone who blows up a building, its someone who causes terror. technically Marcus and his group could be terrorists.
Marcus is a terroist in the governments eyes and to "anyone over 25" but to the younger group that wants their rights back he is a hero. So who is in the right? The government and most adults in the book or the teenagers?
@LinseyEven if they hadn't captured him and taken him away I think that Marcus would have eventually challenged them. This is because he is challenging them for his rights, not entirely for revenge. They also had no idea that Marcus would go and cause all this trouble.
As to Andy's comments I feel that if someone was caught with Xnet, then the government will increase security measures even more. So, the government will increase security because they feel that they had a flaw in their system. The reason for all the intense security is to insure that the government can't be corrupted from within.
Marcus is a terrorist to the government but not to the people because he wants to help the people and get their rights back. He wants to take down the government.
I disagree with Casey when he said that the age of a terrorist is a factor in his suspicion. At the biginning of the book, they mentioned how a terrorist can be anyone around Marcus's age; Al Qaeda hires kids his age all the time.
@emilym- I agree with what your saying. And that is why Marcus is so outraged by being tracked because it isn't helping the government find terrorists it is just causing problems.
Marcus and his friends could be terrorists. They are using a group and theynderm are trying to undermine the DHS. He has an organized group. While he does not use fear to function, he is putting himself and the people he works with in danger. Trying to get back at the DHS could be looked at like terrorism.
Terrorism is defined by the perspective of the person
I do not think Marcus is a terrorist he is just challenging the system. Does that make him a terrorist? YO INNER CIRCLE
@ VeronicaHow far can the government increase security until the country becomes like 1984?
I think that Marcus is like batman. He is a vigilante. He does things for the greater good but breaks laws and creates chaos in the process.
@ EvanWho is Marcus causing terror to? He is putting people in danger of jail time, but they are doing that on their own. He isn't forcing anyone into anything. So really he is a very influencial kid that wants to stand up for his rights.
I think that the government is trying to look for terrorists that have a motive to bomb a bridge. They are also looking for somebody who can control a big group of people with the click of a mouse. Marcus is most likely being watched very close because he can lead a group of people without them knowing who he is. Therefore those citizens following Marcus without knowing him are following blindly and trusting him.
DuceyChallenging the system does not make him a terrorist, his intents and lengths he goes to to do so do.
I totally agree with Nathan there is a fine line between terrorism and challenging the system. He is not hurting anyone he just wants his rights. I see nothin wrong with that
@ Evan L, Maybe Marcus and his friends are terriost, but why? Though they are working behind the government, it doesn't mean that he is a terriost. What would make him a terriost would be if he was causing physical pain and chaos to the American people. Really, he is trying to expose the government for what it really is. To show people what the government is, not what it seems.
@ Brandon,I agree, by the dictionary definition Marcus can be classified as a terrorist, however; Marcus is also trying to fight for the people's rights so maybe that just makes him a terrorist to the government like Laura said.
@LizWho is the Al Queda causing terror to? He isn't doing the actions, he is having kids and followers do it. Is that any different than Marcus?
emilym and ducey- But Marcus isn't trying to hurt anyone. He is just trying to make the United States see how wrong it is for tracking everyone.
I think Mith's comparison to Family Guy was a good one.
@ BrandonYour right.He would have still fought for his rights even if he wouldnt have been held by the government. But this experience gave him a reason to pursue it further. It make his cause even more personal. Daryl missing is another reason for his revenge. Even if it is not all caused by revenge it is a major part of it.
@ZoeWouldn't taking down the DHS make the US people not as safe, and hurting them?
I don't understand why the government thinks it has to take away the publics rights to have a peaceful society. That is what they want right? Peace? It sure doesn't seem so, the government is constantly trying to make America #1.
@LinseyI definately agree with you that because he was arrested it gave a personal aspect to his cause and allowing him to fight with more determination.
So if what Marcus is doing makes him a "terrorist", should we all back down and just let the government take control? Because that's not going to work out any better and we know from 1984 and Winston you can't take the government down by yourself, you need support. Also, isn't this what the patriots were doing before the American revolution, inspiring "terror" into the British government and it's people?
I think he is so determined because of a personal vendetta more than actually fighting for his country. He wanted to get back at them for what they did to him.
@EmilykThats a really good point. He may be doing things that are not right, but those things may be necessary.
Marcus keeps saying that the government is letting the terrorists win by taking all of these measures and causing more fear. But Marcus causes fear himself so he's also fighting with fear.
@ EmilyHow were the colonists terrorists towards britain. The only real terrorist event toward britain was the Boston Tea Party.
@ ShafferI think that Marcus wants to get Darryl back, and along with that Marcus wanted to seek revenge. Also since he was the only person who really experinced it and understood it, he wants to expose the DHS.
@Emily- but the DHS is causing so much trouble for everyone. all of they're privacy is being thrown away. The DHS isn't hurting anyone really but they are causing Americans to lose their privacy and rights. So in the end it goes back to what was asked by one of the speakers that came in: "How far much are you willing to give up, to become safe?"
He is determined to take down the DHS because when he went to that prison he was treated like crap because he wouldn't unlock his phone. That's so ridiculous! Now he is seeing what's happening in San Francisco and how the people's rights are being totally disreguarded and nothing good is coming of it.
@ Zoe*cough* Benjamin Franklin quote *cough*
What is th difference between a revolutionary and a terrorist?
Of course someone else will be able to rebell without Marcus doing it. There are thousands of kids like him.
@Nate KI dont think Marcus is causing fear, he is kind of giving people confidence and inspiration to get their rights back.
What is your guys' opinion of Van??
Marcus is determined to take down the DHS because his rights were stripped of him. The intensity of the interrogating that the DHS goes through shows all the power that the government has and how little the people have. He began this fight against the DHS because of the things that happened to him but now his motive is to help all the citizens that are being hurt by the DHS.
@nathan d:I think it just depends what side you're on. Whoevers side you're on its the "good guy"
@ZoeThat's very true. The DHS is causeing problems, but without them it would be chaos. They are taking away the American's rights, but they are also protecting them. I guess this is why it makes sense that Marcus is messing with the government. I think that he is trying to get them to tone it down and make them stop violtaing so many civil rights.
@Reed,They gathered people together and rebelled against the government. They were violent and did earlier versions of what Marcus is trying to do.
Could Ange be in some kind of weird FBI youth thing? Or could she should be working with the government?