Friday, January 29, 2010

Per. 3 Little Brother Fishbowl/Liveblog

132 comments:

  1. I think marcus might be considered a terrorist because he does cause terror. However, i think he is justified in doing so because it is for a just cause. This is kind of like the revolutionary war. The colonials were terrorists to revolt against Britain but they were justified in doing so.

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  2. By definition, i believe that Marcus is a terrorist; however, most people think of middle-eastern poeple as terrorist and are blind to the fact that Marcus is causing terror.

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  3. No I don't think that Marcus is a terrorist in the general sense that we think of terrorists today. By book definition, he would be considered a terrorist, but he isnt trying to cause harm to people. He is trying to challenge the system and revolt against the governtment.

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  4. Marcus isn't a terrorist, just a clever protester. He isn't trying to force terror on the country. He is just trying to get a message across.

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  5. @David
    So the men that attacked the twin towers thought their action was justified. Does that make it o.k.?

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  6. No I dont think that Marcus is a terrorist. To be a terrorist people have to actually be afraid of you and I dont really think that anyone is afraid of Marcus. I mean the DHS doesnt like what he is doing with the xnet or anything but I dont think they are really afraid of him. I think I terrorist can only be called a terrorist if they put a lot of fear into others and i dont really think that Marcus puts fear into people.

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  7. Marcus is causing chaos. What is the difference between chaos and fear? Personally, I don't think that Marcus is installing fear into the people, he's just trying to alter his government (thank you nick)

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  8. it depends in whats in the eyes of the young and the old, we often as teenagers say that adults think differently and are toataly out of touch of reality. but are they really what have they been exposed to that may or may not make them think differently than us

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  9. I think that to some, Marcus is considered as a terrerist, but to others he is most definently not. The government and people of socieity that are only influenced by the government have only heard that M1K3Y is a terrorist revolutionist. He is spreading fear in to the public which makes him a terrorist. But to the others, kids and adults on the Xnet believing in what he is saying, he is worshiped. They believe that it is the right thing to due, their government needed to be changed for the better.

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  10. Marcus is attacking the government, but in doing so isnt he atacking the country also?

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  11. Terrorism doesn't require the death of someone, we are thinking too much of the stereotypical terrorist with a turban. Just because a person dies doesn't mean that it's terrorism, and just because a person doesn't die doesn't mean that it's not terrorism.

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  12. I agree with Ben. I think she is signed up to fight terrorists by the DHS's definition of a terrorist, which is anyone trying to fight the government and gain their rights back.

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  13. I believe that Masha is planning to attack anyone that the DHS tells her is a terrorist, like Ben said. She will fight the Al Quida threat as well as those that are targeted by the DHS. Her job is to try and attack all those who oppose the government of the US, whether it be people in the country or not.

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  14. I'm not sure if Marcus could be considered a terrorist. He is certainly causing a lot of trouble that could cause a lot of fear. Because the definition of a terrorist is one who causes terror, you could go either way. When someone's identity is changed it could cause them to be arrested by the Department of Homeland Security which is very scary but Marcus is not bombing places or anything like that.

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  15. Mrs. Moritz:

    No it does not. If it is for the benefit of the people i see it as a just cause. Bombing a tower does not in any way show benefits for the terrorists home country. Marcus' home country has been taken over by the DHS and therefore Marcus expresses through the Declaration of Independence that is the right of the people to abolish a government for the right of the people. Similar to the Revolutionary War. The Colonies were the colonial's new country. Therefore they rose up for the benefit of the people in order achieve justice. This is not at all like terrorists. They belive they themselves are just; however, it is in no way beneficial to their homeland.

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  16. I agree with Arika, they both want whats best for thier city. Both are taking it to thier own extremes

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  17. I think that Marcus would be considered a terrorist by the DHS but not by his "followers", it depends on the beliefs of others on what the DHS is doing. He is against them whole heartedly but he is not trying to put his country in danger or harm people. He just wants to prove a point that what the DHS is doing is the wrong way to go about this threat.

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  18. Marcus is, in some ways, like the general population because he assumes that the bombing was a terrorist attack from what the government has told him. We are all dependent upon the information that the government gives us, whether it is accurate or not.

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  19. I don't think that Marcus is trying to destroy or abolish the government, he just disagrees with what the government has changed too. I think Marcus is taking it too far though and I think the government is taking it too far. Its a cycle, if Marcus does something to cause chaos, the government becomes more secure and when the Gov.. becomes more secure, Marcus does something else extreme.

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  20. Marcus is a leader but not intentionally. He is doing what he wants and people are following him.

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  21. is terrorist an ignorant term? are there really any terrorists or did we invent that term to describe our fears and use it to further the governments power

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  22. Im not sure if he wants to be a leader, but he sets trends and everyone looks up to him on the Xnet to know what to do next. He has qualities that make him a leader, especially his passion about rights and taking down the government, but I agree with Ben, I think it just happened that he started the Xnet and people just assumed he was a leader.

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  23. Is Marcus considered a terrorist for setting up the Xnet? Or is he just enforcing his freedoms set down by the Constitution. He may not have chose to be a leader, just to voice his opinion.

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  24. That's a great point, Cole. Either country could call the other a terrorist. We call Al Qaeda terrorists, but they could call us terrorists.

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  25. Is Marcus and the government an endless cycle? I mean it seems every time Marcus does something, the government makes higher security and whenever they do that, Marcus fights back.

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  26. Cole that is an excellent point. And unfortunately i do not know what to respond to the question.

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  27. he was "down in the dumps" for so many weeks and think that he saw a new light in his life and deided that he was worth being presentable in public.

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  28. @ Cole: That is a really good point. Even though there are people who intentionally trying to install fear into others, but it's like that story a few weeks ago about that kid who was praying on a plane, and people freaked, and they had to land the plane for "safety's sake." The American people are so paranoid that anyone who is acting strangely is a terrorist.

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  29. The uniform is a statement. He is saying "I did my duty to my country, and they stabbed me in the back and took my son."

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  30. Marcus is kind of like a leader, but I don't think that Marcus wants to consider a leader. Like Ben said, he is kind of like a natural leader. He has good leadership skills. I don't think that he wants everyone to think that he is the leader because he wants democracy and everyone in his movement to be considered equal. Marcus just wants to inspire a powerful movement.

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  31. Sandra:
    i doubt it. Like Masha said, They are going to find him very soon. As such it is not a never-ending cycle

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  32. I am baffled by Darryl's dad putting on his military uniform. The DHS are responsible for putting him in so much pain and they are assiciated with the military so why would he be proud to represent his pain?

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  33. Kyle What do you mean by that?

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  34. @Sandra:
    I dont think its an endless cycle, I think that it has to end somewhere, whether it be Marcus overthrowing the DHS or the DHS taking down the teens on Xnet.

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  35. No one knows where the prison is, and no one even knew that they were kidnapped until he told his parents.

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  36. @Eric
    I agree with Eric. People normally hate Americans because the they believe we are invading their countries and trying to take over. In their eyes, that would make us terrorist.

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  37. I don't think that Marcus is trying to really be the leader. He's just trying to get his point across. I think that Marcus doesn't want to be a leader because it's putting too much presure on him and he doesn't want to have everything put off on him.

    Also, i think that Darrylls dad put on his military uniform to show that he is ready to fight, to defend and do anyting to get his son back. Now he has hope. Marcus didn't keep looking for Darryll because he had no clue where Darryll was. Marcus couldn't say ANYTHING because he could've been punished for giving the slightest hint about the DHS and what they do.

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  38. @Eric
    I completly agree with you. We are probably all considerd a "terrorist" to someone.

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  39. Marcus was afraid that he would lose the hope of Darryl being alive if he found evidence that Darryl was dead. Ignorance is bliss.

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  40. Rachel:
    I think Darryl's Dad might have put that on to blend in in the outside world. Or maybe it gives him hope or it gives him a sense of security.

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  41. Does the DHS have to approve what goes into newspapers?

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  42. Kyle:

    They know where the prison is now, since marcus told. Not everyone knows.

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  43. David
    I mean that he finally had something to live for and instead of living off TV dinners and drinking, he put on his nice suit, for Daryll. He now knows that his son, the only other person he lived with, is alive and not dead and he feels he needs to be the person he was when Daryll was home.

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  44. look at history all of the revolutionists in history are younger look at the hippies, and the original civil rights movement. Do young people operate differently than adults or are they stupid enough to believe noting will happen to them

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  45. @Kyle
    I think its meantioned that the prision is on "Treasure Island" right off of the bay.

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  46. @Alex
    I rhink they probably have control over the newspaper, they are already taking control of everything else in San Fransico

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  47. @Alex A.- At this point I would think yes that they probably have control over that. If they have control over where people go, they probably have control over what people are reading.

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  48. I don't understand why Marcus would want to publish his story. Yes, the people need to be aware of what's going on but Marcus is now a dead man walking. The DHS said if he ever told they would get him, so now what will happen to Marcus? Will he be protected?

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  49. Max;
    Everyone knows where the prison is, but everyone also thinks that Daryll is dead in the Bay.

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  50. @Alex
    I'm sure some form of government departmnet monitors the newspaper and media. We are supposed to have the Freedom Of Speech, but there are restrictions. The government also hides things from people.

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  51. Rachel has a good question. The DHS is using fear to control Marcus and others. They're using terror. They are terrorists.

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  52. I think that Eric is right about the uniform. He is showing that he did what was right for the U.S. and the U.S. should be doing what is right for him. I think that Taylor makes a good point with the connection to Harry Potter. I think that people will want to read it but the government might ban it. That would also be a lot like Fahrenheit 451. The government doesn't want anyone to know about the world so they ban books.

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  53. Rachel:
    I think he is going to go with Masha. But i do agree and i do not know why he elected to tell the story before he was sure he could get out of the DHS radar.

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  54. @ Rachel: I think this relates (sorry) to my Harry Potter reference. Harry knew he would get in trouble, and didn't care. Marcus didn't care either. Marcus knows that the DHS will now come after him, and all Marcus wants is for his story to be out.

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  55. I don't think that Marcus is the kind of person that runs away from his problems. He created something and now he has to stick around and finish it. Zeb has no connections to stick around for and if he feels safer out of the U.S. then he should do it.

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  56. I do not think that Marcus will flee the country to acquire freedom. He has fought too hard just to give up right when it seems that the DHS is on the verge of breaking, the information being expressed to the public.

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  57. @ Sandra- I don't think that the DHS can control where people are going though. They just question people.



    I think that Marcus will fight through it. I don't think he'll end up leaving the country. He can't leave Ange and I don't think that he'd be able to leave his parents. I also don't think he could put that pain into his parents again after he saw them after he got back from jail.

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  58. @Rachel- I agree. I think it is a bad idea for him to want to publish this article for a couple of reasons. Why would he want the DHS to know he told. After the article is published I don't really think he will be protected. The DHS, as you said, already told him that they would get him if he told anyone and he told a journalist. Thats probably the worst idea he could have. Maybe if he just told his parents he could get away with it without the DHS finding out but now, I don't exactly think he is protected.

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  59. I don't thin people were paranoid in 1984. That's how they were all brought up, not to say certain stuff, so I don't think people in 1984 were that paranoid, except for the select few.

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  60. @Taylor: why would he want his story to be out if it will kill him?

    How do you think his story being out will effect the DHS and what they are doing?

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  61. Cole:

    I think that the kids are stupid enough to think that they would not get caught. They have not yet fully matured their brains and are therefore naive. Adults have alot more experience in living in this society.

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  62. do you think that masha is really luring him into a trap

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  63. I dont think that Ange will betray him. Ange and Marcus have more of a connection, and Ange is more interested in the governmnet and taking down the DHS than Julia ever was.

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  64. Little Brother relates to 1984 because the governments are thinklng for the people. In 1984, the government completely controled the people. In Little Brother, the government used the "terrorist in the Bay" as their way to control and manipulate the people.

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  65. With paranoia comes rules, restriction, moniters, but without parnanoia, wouldn't the nation not funciton properly? If no one was afraid, they thought there was no threat, our nation would most likely collapse, and terrorists could easily destroy the foundation of the nation.

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  66. Kyle:
    Sorry now I get what your saying.

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  67. Cole: I don't think that anyone can be trusted in this scenario because the DHS is everywhere and they have being trying to get to Marcus so you never know who to trust and who to be paranoid of.

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  68. Ange cares about the ideas that Marcus is promoting, Julia only cared about her romantic relationship with Winston

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  69. Cole:
    I do not think so. Because Masha made a great many of points that expresses how she was being serious and truthful the entire time, like sharing information and what not.

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  70. Adam, that's a good point. We need the terrorists, and the terrorists need us. They give us a cause to rally behind, and we give them a cause. Without each other, both would die.

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  71. I'm not sure, but I don't think that Angela will know. Although Ange and Julia have the same personality, seems like she cares more about taking down the government and is more on the same page than Julia was with Winston. Julia didn't care at all about how much Big Brother was controlling them.

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  72. @Cole,
    I am not quite sure. I partially think that she is because it just seemed a little strange how she suddenly brought it all up with Marcus, how she had worked for the DHS and all. She didn't really give much information about herself either.

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  73. @ Rachel: I think that Marcus knows that not all Americans are stupid enough to follow the DHS line for line, and that if his story WAS out, some people would realize that what the DHS is doing is wrong, and that his faithful X-netters would keep rebelling, and would probably blow up the entire rebellion. But I don't know, since not many people would willingly give up their freedom.

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  74. I don't think there are any "O' Briens" in this book. I don't think that LB has any "though police". I don't think they'll have the same ending either

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  75. I believe that Marcus can trust Masha. If she was an undercover cop trying to bust Marcus, why would she tell Marcus that he would be caputered soon? With her hacking abilities, then I think that Marcus would have already been caputured if she was truly trying to capture him.

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  76. The quote that Lauren read was related to todays timek. If anyone wants to do something bad, or good, but they aren't supposed to do that something, they will find a way to do it, if they really really want to.

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  77. This is relatable in our world because there is always a way around security. It will never be perfect, Marcus can surpass any security and if any real terrorist wants to harm someone or cause terror, they will make it happen.

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  78. Cory Doctrow put in alot of small similarities in "Little Brother" from "1984" but no story changing similarities. "Little Brother's" story differs alot from "1984".

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  79. I think that false sense of security is what actually keeps the country together. Even though some metal detectors may not work, we still feel safe with them. If we didn't have that sense of security, I think that a lot of people would leave the country.

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  80. Is it better for the government to make us believe that we are safe, or for us to know the true gravitity of the situation?

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  81. I agree comletely with D-zoo. There will always be a chance that something dangerous will happen.

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  82. David:

    Why do I think there are no though police?

    I think this because
    1.) I don't think DHS is the undercover police type thing and there isn't anything to really hide.
    2.) Idon't think that Doctorow would follow the plot of 1984 so perfectly

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  83. We've been bred from the crib to trust and rely on the authority figure. We trust the government to keep us safe and do their job.

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  84. I don't think it's a matter of being safe, i think it's just being SCARED

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  85. Marcus feels safe when he is M1k3y, that is his cushion, his alter-ego and when he is on the x-net, thats when he is secure

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  86. I agree with Alex's point because this book, has way more differences than similarities than 1984. The plots have completely different actions going on and different events unfolding. There are ideas that are similar, but not similar enough, or as much of an impact on the text, to change the ending of the novel. In addition, 1984 had a weird futuristic plot and stylke of writing that fit that book. This book didn't develope like 1984, so the ending wouldn't fit to be similar to that of 1984.

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  87. Alex:

    I do agree with there is no Thought Police. That makes sense to me. However, I do think that Doctorow wrote this book to portray 1984 so I think there will be similar endings.

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  88. Taylor, I completely agree. Although safety measures are not always 100% effective they make us feel safe and that's what matters. There is an effort to keep us safe so there is an effort to stop the bad guys.

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  89. @Adam:
    Im torn on this. If everyone knew the true gravity of the situation, there would be panic and paranoia all the time, but then again if you lie to people about their saftey then you get, as Joy said, a false sense of security

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  90. is that the whole point of government to make you feel safe

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  91. I agree with Kyle, since after Marcus's detainment, he felt bare, since his only comfort and identity was taken away. Even though we may not be safe, we are not scared. And when we're scared, it doesn't really mean that we're not safe.

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  92. We have such a cushion in our lives that safety is a given. It is only when some incident occurs that we feel fear. So whenever something isn't going wrong, we feel like the government is keeping us safe.

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  93. I don't think you can be 100% sure on being safe really in any situation but you can feel safe.

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  94. @Alexa:
    So then is there a 'right' amount of paranoia that the government should allow the public to feel? And if so, what are the limitations?

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  96. The technology in airports with metal dectectors and searches and such make people feel safer.

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  97. @Adam:
    Well yes I think their has to be limits on what the govenrment tells us and what is on the news. There should be some paranoia so that people dont get themselves into danger, but if the news is telling you every single thing that happens there would be a mass panic

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  98. David:

    I agree that Doctorow wrote this book to portray 1984, just more recent, but at the same time, I don't think they'll have similar endings. I don't think that Marcus is oing to come out and say "I think the DHS is great and keeping us safe." He's a teenager, he has his beliefs and it's not going to change that easily. That's shown in our fishbowls even

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  99. When something goes wrong, you want retribution and revenge. If someone were to hit you, you would feel angry and probably want to hit them back.

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  100. I agree with Nick, when you are afraid of something when you are little, a lot of times it will stick with you until you are older.

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  101. I agree with Derek. Events in one's life dictate and future opinions and fears. This happened in Little Brother. Because of 9/11, the attack on the Bay sent people into more of a panic because they had already witnessed a terrorist attack.

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  102. The people of San Francisco side with the DHS because thats what they think they should believe in. When your talking to you neighbor and they are praising the DHS, you're not going to say "Well i believe in this group of radical kids known as the X-net"

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  103. I agree that safety is a matter of what you have been through. If someone is more exposed to guns then they would not be as scared as I would be because I have never been exposed to guns. Life experiences shape how you feel about everything. Going through a terrorist attack however might be different. The people in the Twin Towers when it was bombed may feel even more fear of terrorist attacks then those who have never eperienced one.

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  104. @ Alexa: Your last point was really good. Even if we feel safe, (as teenagers) when someone tells us to be afraid, it's not that easy. We have to experience it, and that's why these points are so hard to argue, since we haven't experienced this.

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  105. David:

    Yes yes I agree. It really doesn't make sense now that he would write a similar ending.

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  106. @Alexa
    I agree with you completely. With total paranoia comes insecurity and panic, but some is necessary to make society function properly.

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  107. I think that the whole point of O'Brien was to show that in a controlled society nobody knows who they can trust. Little Brother is very different but also very similar. I think that being scared, worried, smart, and safe can be the same thing in some cases and different in some cases.

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  108. I don't feel "less safe" with the rights we have now. Rigts are rights. We are the USA because we have rights. Lose those rights and you lose who you are, we are, as Amricans

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  109. There needs to be a perfect balance of safety and of freedoms but whose to decide that balance?

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  110. I agree with Zach: One needs to take actions, or steps, or safety. if the people on the plane didn't take control of that man, then they wouldn't feel "safe" they'd be scared. Scared, and later, dead.

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  111. Safety and trust go hand in hand. We feel safe because we trust someone to be looking out for us, we don't feel safe when we don't trust someone. For example, we would feel safer if a cop is aiming a gun at us, but if we replace that cop with a o.g. or whatever, then we would feel fear because we don't trust them.

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  112. Ethan just made an excellent point in the inner circle.

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  113. Our mindset is that something bad is always going to happen to someone else. It is only when something bad happens to us that we feel true fear.

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  114. The reality of a situation will differ from person to person, based off of how closely the situation impacted the person- especially is someone known is part of the problem.

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  115. @ nick what is the truth is there a truth or a fantasy idea that we all believe in. is what we know a lie

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  116. Eric:
    To clarify, are you saying that you would feel safer being aimed at by a cop than if a criminal did? Wouldn't you be scared anyway? I just don't understand your point.

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  117. It didn't happen to the other people in the US, so they most likely don't care too much. They're like, "oh man, that's horrible. but it's not me, so it's not that bad"

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  118. I think that Mrs. Moritz has a good point about how we are never really actually safe because anything could happen. I think that your rights could make you feel safer, but it can go the other way, too. If there are too many rights it will not be as safe. I think that it is true that we cannot relate as much and talk about it as much if we don't have as horrible of an experience. We feel bad and scared, but I don't think that people are as scared as others.

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  119. Eric:

    I completely agree with that statement. Everyone feels safe until something happens trutly to that person or that persons friend. It is then that someone truly experiences fear. Which is then taken over by paranoia.

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  120. Taylor, I'm saying that you would trust a cop to not shoot you more than you would trust a criminal.

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  121. I think that the feeling of the rest of America to San Francisco can be compared to how we are feeling about Haiti right now. They are going through an awful tragedy right now. We help them out and send them money and yet we go on with our every day lives like nothing happened. It did not directly affect us so we help them out for a while and then forget about it. This is how it will be with San Francisco, the rest of the US will sympathize with them for awhile and then the DHS will be able to take over and do what they want.

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  122. I don't think it was smart to keep telling people about it. He told 4 different people in one night, one of which was previously in the Navy.

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  123. I agree with Gabby that there has to be a balance between moderate and radical. If you are too moderate, you will never be heard, but if you are too radical people will get annoyed and ignore you.

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  124. I don't know if it's too smart to talk about a bunch of sex and sexual things in a book for teens. Teens are stupid and follow the crowd, they do what they hear. In a way, teens are just like young kids, in the sense of following everyone and doing what they hear, but teens are more daring

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  125. I don't think that the DHS bombed the bridge but I am actually not quite sure...

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