Yes, he's running away from not only the police but his former lifestyle. This was demonstrated when he burned his whole house, instead of just the books. He wanted to be finished with everything. He wanted to make a change in society, but when he couldn't do that, he just decided to run. It was the only course of action he had left.
I agree with Ethan in that he was, in a way, leaving the old him behind and running toward a new him. Did Ray Bradbury put that in there on purpose or did the possible metaphor just happen?
When Montag is running, he's not just running from the police, but from everything that's happened to him within the past few days. We know that when he starts to read the books to Mildred and her friends, that he is, in a way, giving up the life that he has.
I think he might be running from his old life basically. I think that hes so overwhelmed and stressed that while he is running away from the government, he is running away to maybe try and start up a new life for himself.
I think that Montag is running away from who he used to be, since he's sick of his old life, and he just wants to be a new person. Like when he was burning his house, he wanted to change everything, since he's a new person. Montag knows what a life should be, and he wants a real life, and it's not offered in the city.
I think that he is running to just get away from the whole society. He knows he needs to get away and he isn't meant to live in that society, his beliefs were to different.
I agree with Chrisina and Ethan is running away from everything but he is also running to something new. It is like in the Giver even though he is running from that lifestyle, he is going to a new one. He is running to a new and maybe better life.
I think theoretically all people that have read books and understand and like them have gone on that path. It's a path that people take, the "wrong" path.
I agree with Derek, that he is not only running away from the police and the law but that he is running away from his old habits, his bad choices, and from the society that he lived in.
Montag was fed up with how society was shaped and he wanted to get away from it all. He believed that society was ruined and he did not want to live anywhere near such a corrupt place. He is escaping the evil that had held him hostage while in the city, as well as his past beliefs and traditions. Montag is escaping to start a new life.
@ Joy: I think that Ray Bradbury did intend it to be a metaphor. Throughout F451, there are tons of metaphors and symbols. It seems like he includes a lot of these in his writing, so it wouldn't be surprising if this was one also.
I think that the run he makes could be the beginning of his new life, and i don't think the railroad is really a symbol like christina said, cause they already knew where they were going to begin with.
I think that Montag is running from his old life. He had enough, got fed up and messed it up. It was good in a way though because it cleared him from the city and the war. He survived and this was good so he could carry on the books. This all happened for a reason, he ran away from his past life and now he will start the new era where books are excepted. He ran from one life into another.
I agree with Lauren. He is trying to run away from society and life that he lead while he was a fireman. He wanted to escape the censorship and the norm that society had created. He burned his house and was torching everything because he wanted to get rid of it and make it nonexistent. Almost like he was trying to make it seem like it never happened.
I agree with Kyle, Montag seemed genuinely surprised when he came upon the book people. It was by chance that he stumbled across them, and if he knew about them before, why wouldn't he just go to them earlier?
I like what Sarah said about unconsciously wanting to leave. His life would be his first priority, but I think that in the back of his mind, he wanted to get away from society too.
I agree with Suzy because in his old life he didn't feel anything or know anything real all he knew was a few quotes from a few books and all the other books were bad. Now that he has read a few himself, he found out what the real world is like. And now his old life scares him and he is running.
@ Suzy Faber had told Montag that there would be groups like that along the railroad tracks. I don't think it was a surprise to him. Originally, it might have been, because he wasn't thinking about meeting other people.
Are Montag and his new associates part of the next spark. As said there is sort of a circle if death and life. Once this society dies, does Montag's reign?
The pheonix is a symbol of repeating history. The bird lives, burns and comes to life again to start the whole process over. This society burned because they did not know how to face their problems and if they don't realize where they went wrong, nothing will ever change. They will not become like the Pheonix because they realize their mistakes and will not repeat history.
I think the hound ran the other direction because he couldn't smell Montag anymore. I do not think that the hound can think for itself. Its a machine. Why would the government have wanted to program the hound to think its ok for someone to get away if he had read books, if they are outlawing them?
Like everyone is saying, he is not only burning his house but he is burning his old job and his old life. I think that there is a big connection between F451 and their life. The people are going into war and they will live again. The people will always be back with something new and different. The phoenix will burn but come back.
I agree with eathan. The pheonix and humans are similar in a way that after a while, the people will eventually "die out", and will come back newborn, with new ideas and beliefs. Just like a pheonix is reborn into the same world he left, but as a new being.
I disagree with what Amanda said. The Hound doesn't have a capability to think for itself, and it was made to hunt down people that have done the wrong thing. Because of Beatty, the Hound doesn't like Montag, and it only went the other way because it had the scent of the walker.
The hound cant think on its own. earlier in the book, Beatty talks about how they decide what the chemical make up of th ehound is. If they decide that,how could the hound think anything but what they tell it to?
@ Kyle: I don't think people will except Montag's views for a long time. They just expereienced a nuclear war and are in completely disarray and disater. They won't have time to think about books for a long time. Rebuilding the society will be the first priority...if anyone actually knows how to do that.
He compared humans to the phoneix because the legend of the phoenix was that when it was about to die it was lit on fire and it was born again out of the ashes. This was a great comparison by Ray Bradbury because when humans are about to be destroyed the start a war over the iissues in the world and then out of the fire and ashes of war the humans are in a way "born again".
Kyle- I don't think Montag himself will reign, but their ideas will come into the society since they are the only ones left. They're going to rebuild the society
I also disagree with Amanda. It wouldn't make sense for the government to program the hound to be ok with letting Montag escape. the government would be breaking their own laws if they did.
Mrs. Moritz- No, I don't think that sort of thing happens in our world. If there were to be a police chase live on TV, and it was going nowhere, I think that the media would practically change the subject. I don't think they'd harm an innocent pedestrian.
The mechanical hound is symbolism for technology and the government. Also it represents the governments control over the people. The hound can easily kill his target, just the like the government can easily control its people.
I agree with Kyle, I think that Montag's way of life will take over because those are the only people who are left. They are the new spark of life. A rebirth of the society. I agree with Canyon as well. This will be the new government. The burning of the city is like the burning of the Pheonix and when it is born again it will be Montag who is in control.
I agree with Kelly that the hound symbolizes fear because if you do something bad, the hound knows and if you try to run, like Montag, he can track you and punish you however it is programmed.
I do not think they set up people to make it look like we caught people on the run. I do think that at some point this could happen though because everyone wants to please everyone. When they think a mad man is running down there street they are not going to be happy but if the know they are in the safety of there home and that Montag is caught, they feel much more comfortable. The government can go to extremes and I think that at some point this could be one of them.
I like what Nick said about humans being born again after war. I think that is definately true in our society, but in F451, how will they be born again? They'll be concerned about rebuilding, but no one will know what to do because they have no knowledge? How will they be born again? Will the have to start over with a simple society, not reliant on technology?
Suzy: Even though I agree with you, isn't the government allowed to break its own rules? I mean they went after the wrong person, so why wouldnt they break their own rules?
I think that the gov. probably has to pretend like they caught a criminal they were chasing because lots of time the person that is against the gov is smarter than the gov. So when they run into someone like that then they have to say to the people that the criminal has been caught to relieve fear.
@ Mrs. Moritz The government used the person as a scapegoat and i think that in society we use those all the time. The main example that comes to mind is how the Jews were the scapegoat during the Holocaust.
Kyle- I dont think that they suspected anything of Faber. All they knew was that he was an old man who had a couple "strange" ideas. They didnt really have a reason to suspect him
I think that Montag accepts books more than Beatty does. Maybe Beatty accepts books a little bit, but hes too rigidly set in following the rules, and burning books is a rule.
The opinions between Montag and Beatty is different in the sense that Beatty believes books are empty, they have no meaning. Montag however, believes that books contain valuable information that can be useful in society.
I don't think that the hound symbolizes government because the government is just there for the purpose of being there. I think that the hound represents the power of the firemen and the fear that it brings to people. It was also showing that the animals weren't considered as important as the mechanical hound in their society. Once the town is reborn like the phoenix the opinon might be different.
Mrs. Moritz and Gabby, I think that things are manipulated on tv. Somethings they can't show on tv for the protection of others but some things are just manipulated to be pleasing to the watchers.
@ Mrs. Mortiz: I do think that the media manipulates things so that we see and believe what they want us to. It might not be as dramatic as F451, but you can manipulate media simply by leaving certain things out. It's like the lying thing we talked about in class a couple weeks ago: is it still a lie if you don'te tell the whole truth? It's sort of like what the media does. THey might not tell us everything, and that can actually lead to false perceptions of events.
@ Gabby- Do they even have the skills to rebuild? There is a possibility that they will wake up but then again they are so centered on their technology they could feel lost and become even more listless without it.
Taylor- If the government went around breaking their own rules, wouldn't society just become corrupt? I dont think that capturing an innocent man is against the rules or laws. People don't know he was innocent.
Going back to Mrs. Moritz's question I agree but im not sure they set people up to take the fall like in the book but the government through the CIA and other agencies do things that are never even heard about or talked about and when we live in a world like that I wouldn't put it past the government to do something like that.
@ Joy: I think what Gabby meant by rebuild is to start completely over, at the beginning of civilizatin. No technology, no government, just people trying to survive. They might have to go through the whole civilization process again.
@ Joy- They might not know where to start, or even how to rebuild. But, eventually, someone will think of an idea of how to rebuild, and that idea will spread.
@ Lauren- O, ok that makes sense. Is that possible? Yes, civilizations go through a cycle in which at some point they have to rebuild but do civilizations ever completely start over? just curious.
I think the people do not like the disruption of their technology. They just want to find Montag and get him out of the way so they can go back to what they were doing and not be bothered. They could probably care less if it was the real Montag or not. He was no longer a disruption to them so they let it rest without question.
Suzy- the government has the right to break there own law. It's like Zach said earlier, maybe the gov. is above the law. Aside from that, the society in Fehrenheit 451 is already corrupt.
Don't you think a lot of the time, people in positions of power use "crimes" or mistakes to make an example of??? To scare others? Is this what their doing by showing the false death of "Montag"?
The reason time is capitalized is because its talking about an important thing. It says the sun is burning time, Bradbury is emphasizing how important that is.
@ Joy: I'm not sure. I know that in the Dark Ages they had to start over to some extent, but not completely. However, no matter what you believe about how the earth got here, evolution or creation, or something else, civilization had to start somewhere. Someone had to develop it orginally. I think it is possible, it'll just take time.
I think that Ray Bradbury put the emphasis on time because Montag is starting to realize how much time was wasted by burning books and how much time it will take to bring books and knowledge and intellect to society.
Bradbuy capitalized 'Time' because he is showing that every second of everyday, something important is burning. We're losing sight of whats important, which is life and living it to the fullest. Why burn more things when enough is being burnt already, time. We're losing the most important thing every second, our life.
@Sandra-- to teach a lesson to other who might be considering doing the same thing---example- Your parents may discipline an older sibling for something they do, not to just punish them, but to teach you not to do it or you will suffer the same consequence.
@ Mrs. Moritz I think that they are, it seems like they are flexing their muscles and warning other fireman what will happen to them if they follow in his example.
@ Mrs. Moritz Yes I believe that people today do that and I think that is what they were trying to accomplish by doing this ti that man, also I believe that they are trying to keep the city calm like nothing is wrong and the criminal was caught.
@ Mrs. Mortiz: Yes, I think they used Montag as an example. It's what a lot of dictators do, and in F451, the society is pretty much dictating the lives of the people in an indirect way, using the firemen. It's like what Saddam Hussein did, what Hitler did, and I think what Stalin did too.
I agree with rachel. The people of the society could care less whether or not it was the real Montag or not. By showing the false death of Montag, it just shows people that if you do something to go against the government, they will be brought down.
Mrs. Moritz- Yes, in the past, they hung people in public to make a point. They wanted to show the alleged actions of the person were unacceptable; for no one to follow their example. Montag was shown being killed because he broke a law. They just wanted to show that in order for the everyday people to be happy, they need to obey the laws and everything will be okay.
Ben- Why does the government have the right to break their own laws? Shouldn't they be trying to set a model for the citizens? If the government begins breaking the laws, then everyone might being breaking the laws also. The society in F451 is already corrupt, but the people don't know that because they are so immersed in technology. They don't think their society is corrupt because they are oblivious. They think everything is prefect. If everyone starts breaking the law, then would society eventually become corrupt for the people?
What does anyone think what will happen to the Blacks? (the people who Montag called an alarm on) Especially since the whole thing with Montag being captured, and Black is a fireman, will he be made an example of too?
@Mrs.Moritz-- thanks for the clarification :) I do think that they are warning others from doing the same. They don't want people to have their own opinions that interfere with the rest of the society which in their eyes, were what Montags ideas were doing.
ETHAN---He already had some idea about books since he had them hidden. Clarisse isn't the only reason he started reading. He wouldv'e started either way
I do not think that Montag could ever go back to living his old life. Too much has changed, I don't think he could do it. Also, i don't think the government would let him go go back to living his old life.
I think that Montag probably has some regret of his spark, but then he relizes that the changes that have happened to him most likely have happened for the best, so he doesn't regret it.
I think that Captain Beatty did his part because he didn't want to be out in the open that he liked books. If he did that their society would look bad. Instead he helped Montag by antagonizing him about books. He was still not a fireman but looked like Montag's fault.
@ Suzy: In our society, we can argue that the government doesn't have the right to break laws because of the Constitution. However, that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. During WWI, there were laws that made it illegal to speak our against the government. That's against the 1st ammendment. If our society breaks there own laws, the one in F451 would be much worse. But the government in F451 is so corrupt, would they even care? Probably not. Besides, who's going to stop them? Everyone is ignorant. It's just a bad situation for the average citizen.
Alex- I completely agree. Time is being wasted with the miniscule details. They are important but the government is stressing the wrong morales and qualities in life. They are burning time and they must take advantage of it in order to achieve the results they want. Such as taking the focus off of technology.
If Clarisse was the spark that got him interested in literature, then why had Montag been collecting books before he met her? What had caused that intrigue?
I think that Montag was always like he was at the end of the book. Thinking independantly. I just think that Clarisse was a catalyst for what would have happened later on.
@Mrs. Moritz, A lot of the time the crimes that are committed by people are hyped up and shown over and over again on TV and I think this is to make the people of the society fearful and to make the people obey what the government says. I also agree with Adam about how the people could care less about whether it was the real Montag or if it was fake. I think the people just wanted someone to be caught and they wanted to be entertained.
Suzy- Well if they started making a big deal about every single person who had books, then the society would veiw owning books as more normal. The dramatization could also send the message that the govt was losing power
@ Gabby: I agree. Montag probably would have continued to think independentally and disagree internally with what he was doing. However, without Clarisse, he might not have gone to the extent that he did. He probably wouldn't have killed Beatty or read poetry to those women. I like how Gabby put it: she was the catalyst.
@ Mrs. Moritz in the afterward when it talks about Beatty owning a whole secret library was this a scene that was cut out of the book or was it before the book even starts?
I agree with Alex that he still thought about them because he took them and looked at them every night. I think that Clarisse knew that he was a curious fireman and that is why she picked him to talk to. I think that Clarisse was like a book which is like a tool. The thoughts were there they just had to come out. And Clarisse helped the thoughts stimulate.
I think that Montag would have still gotten to where he is at the end of the book without Clarisse because his curiosity was always there, but Clarisse was just a catalyst and sped up the process
max- I think that the mirror factory was somewhat significant. The people needed to take their eyes off technology and focus on what they have become. They need to realize how far they have gone downhill. It was sort of used as a wake up call. They need to see themselves but do you think their society could go from technology centered to self centered even more without technology?
@Adam, He wanted to take the books because he was always burning them and he never knew what was inside them. Also it says at the start of the book when he was taking the bible that his hands were controlling him and somehow the book landed in his hands and he just took it.
@Sandra- is everyone interested by books? Would that mean that the other firemen had kept books, or had wanted to take books? It seems to me that Montag and Beatty are the only two that are influenced in any way by books.
Joy-but the government doesn't want people to think that they are loosing power. If they put it on the news every single time they went and burned a house full of books, people would see it more often and just because they see it more often doesn't mean that they will think its normal. On the news there are a ton of murders, but people don't think murder is 'normal'. Just because it is often on the news doesn't mean that people will think its ok.
But Jason, Without catalysts, sometimes things don't happen so maybe that boost will be just the thing needed. Witought her, I think Montag would have never changed or anything. Probably just staying the same.
The salamander represents society- salamanders are fire-proof. You can try to kill it by burning, but it will not die. Society tries to burn their problems away, but these problems will still linger, they will never entirely be extinguished. The men in the forest prove this.
@ Adam: The only people interested in books are probably those who aren't content with their life. Montag wasn't happy, and he thought that if he could learn the truth and gain knowledge from books, he could fix his life and learn to be happy. Beatty wanted books because he wanted power, and knowledge is power. Faber wanted the books because he simply valued the words and knowledge. The average person like Mildred is too consumed by technology--they are "content"--so they never think about anything else.
I agree with Taylor. He is talking about how th society they need to make should reflect their knowledge and their past. They need to head in a new direction but they can never forget how technology took over because then there is a chance history could repeat itself.
@Adam, I think that all of the firemen eventual get interested in books. Captain Beattty says that he has a foremen take books because they are curious. This means that Montag wasn't the first firemen to take interest in books. I don't think other firemen were influenced by the books, just curious to look inside one and see what they held.
Ben, things do change without catalysts, it just takes a longer time. Catalysts just speed up reaction and Clarisse is that, she just sped up the time it'd take for Montag to truly get into books at that intensity.
In response to Luc, I would assume that they all went through a similar experience as Montag and they all ended up together...so, they just had a feeling the Montag would end up with them.
Adam, Is it society that trys to burn there problems away? Aren't they just clueless? I think it is maybe the gov. that is trying to burn your problems away.
If they had kept the scene in the afterword and put it before the book do you think it would change the way we look at the book and maybe it would explain why Montag had those books to begin with and why he collected them?
I think that Christina is right. Faber could be a recruiter for the people with the books. I don't really think that Faber will recruit though. I think that he will help those that recruit themselves.
Zach: Yes, that is what I was asking about. But since, at the end, the city is bombed, and we know that the professors are in the right, since they rose above technology. If they are the good people of the society, is there something still wrong with them?
@lauren- that is a good point, society seems to be content with how they are living, and only those who aren't happy will interest people. I agree with you completely.
I don't think Montag had any idea where he was going. I think he just hoped that there was somewhere better, somewhere he could learn. He was lead by his hope.
Lauren- The people are only content and not questioning because they are okay with other people running their life. They do not have the intelectual ability to question and think of what lies outside the city. They fear the government and do not want to go against it. For those who know there is something more and are not content with having that knowledge hidden from them are the ones interested in books. They are bored with technology ruling them. If books are burned why do you think that doesn't spark interest in others? They are burned so there must be something interesting there.
@Mrs. Moritz, I don't think he knew he would run into people with his own mindset. I think he felt alone and that he was on it on his own from then on.
Books being burned means there is something special and unique in them. The people are not allowed to know but why would they be okay with it? Wouldn't they want to know more?
@ Mrs. Moritz: I dont think that Montag really thought there were too many people like him. That's why he went to Faber. When he went to Faber, he said that Faber was the only person he knew that he could go to. That means that he thought there were very few people like him. The people who share Montag's mindset try to stay inconspicious and hidden.
Originally, when Montag started stealing the books, I don't think he thought that he would end up a fugitive and find other people with his mindset. But, after he started talking to Faber, I think that he knew that there were other people with the same mindset as him, he just didn't know that he'd be on the run. He wasn't planning on Beatty coming to his house, burning it, trying to arrest him, and then Montag himself killing Beatty.
Zach: Do you think at all that these people who will rebuild their society will ever go back to the old ways, since that is the society they're used to? Just wondering what you think. (anyone, actually.)
Rachel- Though books are burnt, it doensn't spark interest in others because of how they are brought up. They are taught not to have interest and there's only a select few that do.
@ Rachel- Yes you would think that the average human would want to know more but you have to remember that the people in F451 aren't normal. They are all about technology and anything outside that doesn't really matter to them
@ Rachel: I don't think they care enough to figure out what's in the books. Technology is way more important to them. They DON'T think, like you said, so they would think enough to consider that books might be more than the government says they are.
Ethan brings up an interesting point. The government says education is important but they also ban books. This is very hypocritical and again brings up the point of who should be banned, and if they are banned do they need to be destroyed?
Taylor- I think that if the people do rebuild their society, then theres always going to be the odd man out, like Clarisse, that goes against what everyone else is doing. If they do rebuild it, I don't think that everyone would fall back into their old ways, but I think that a couple of people would.
Rachel- Only a select few have interest because its their personal human nature. It's their personality and something needs to spark it to make that come out in them.
@Mrs. Moritz: I don't think that Montag knew exactly what he was going to, just that there was somewhere to go where there would be books. That ties into the symbolism that the salamander will never really die in the fire. The books will still be there even if the books aren't physically there.
Zach: That's a really good point. But if these people don't teach the next generations about the downfalls of technology, do you think that they'll eventually turn back, referring to the whole choosing higher cliffs to jump off?
@Taylor, I don't think the people of the society will go back to there old ways completely. So many books are burned it would be almost impossible to get that information back. Also, once people grow up in a certain society they get used to it. It would be hard from going to only looking at screens at school and such, the actually having to learn. I do think that eventually they could go back in some ways. If you can get to that place of being soley based on technology, then you can probably get out of it.
I disagree with Zach, the only way that history wont repeat itself is if you do read it and plan on changing the mistakes. If you don't, than it will repeat over ad over.
Alex- What I'm really wondering is why their human nature is different from others. They have all been brought up in the same society, same beliefs. What went wrong?
Along with the freedom of speech thing in the future do you think that they took away Constitutional right when they say it is banned in the U.S. because they live in Chicago and do you think that people even follow the Constitution because technically that would be breaking their laws?
Sandra: But the only people who have survived from this city were the professors, who didn't learn by looking at screens, and they certainly won't teach with that same method.
@ Sandra and Taylor: The society of F451 was destroyed by nuclear war, right? This means they will have to completely rebuild, because no one has to knowledge to rebuild from the point of where they were. People don't know how to manufacture the technology, because so many of them were killed. They will have to start completely over. This means that if they do go back to there old ways, it will take a very very long time.
Rachel- Nothing went wrong with them. Like in our society, some people have a human nature that makes them want to smoke at a young age. We were all brought up in the same society, but they do it while some of us don't. They have friends or someting that's a little spark that makes it come out in them.
@ Sandra: I don't think so, but there are books that are "illegal" in some school districts to teach. I don't think they can actually ban you from reading a book, though. It's against the first ammendment: freedom of speech.
Rachel- I do not think that everyone has been brought up in the same society with the same beliefs. Even if they have been brought up the same, eventually they would start forming their own opinions.
On the last page when the group was walking towards to the sitting, people started falling in behind Montag as he was walking. What do you think of that?
I don't think there are actually books that are illegal to read. Like we've discussed, there are banned books that in certain areas aren't allowed to be in libraries and taught in school. But, there probably aren't books that you will get arrested for if you read it.
@Rachel I think that one reason why they are different is becacuse they have a different personality that makes them more interested and curious then others. Also I think certain experiences make people differnet from others. For example Montag meeting Clarisse was the spark that got Montag really interested about books and knowledge. Maybe others have had similar experiences that jump started their curiosity.
I think that if you ban a book in a school they are not comfortable with the content of the book. When the book required to read, in school people don't want it read. If the people aren't required in the USA it is not bad if it is a choice.
I think that when his group falls behind him, they are showing that they think he's a leader. A great leader. They trust him to lead them to where they need to go.
Suzy- Ok, so why do some form their own opinions and others don't? They all go to the same schools, have the same government and most believe the same things.
@ Mrs. Mortiz: I didn't notice that people starting falling in line behind them. Is is almost like they are following him? If so, it could symbolize that eventually, he will be in some sort of leadership role. After all, he's one of the more capable people so if they have to rebuild society, he would be a logical choice for a leadership position.
I agree with Mrs. Moritz. You never know what you have until its gone, and after Mildred was gone and all his problems in society had been annihalated, he could think straight and remember things that he had wanted to.
I don't think he's really thinking about running away from annything else because all he was thinking about was escaping the police and living.
ReplyDeleteYes, he's running away from not only the police but his former lifestyle. This was demonstrated when he burned his whole house, instead of just the books. He wanted to be finished with everything. He wanted to make a change in society, but when he couldn't do that, he just decided to run. It was the only course of action he had left.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ethan in that he was, in a way, leaving the old him behind and running toward a new him. Did Ray Bradbury put that in there on purpose or did the possible metaphor just happen?
ReplyDeleteWhen Montag is running, he's not just running from the police, but from everything that's happened to him within the past few days. We know that when he starts to read the books to Mildred and her friends, that he is, in a way, giving up the life that he has.
ReplyDeleteI think he might be running from his old life basically. I think that hes so overwhelmed and stressed that while he is running away from the government, he is running away to maybe try and start up a new life for himself.
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag is running away from who he used to be, since he's sick of his old life, and he just wants to be a new person. Like when he was burning his house, he wanted to change everything, since he's a new person. Montag knows what a life should be, and he wants a real life, and it's not offered in the city.
ReplyDeleteI think that he is running to just get away from the whole society. He knows he needs to get away and he isn't meant to live in that society, his beliefs were to different.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Chrisina and Ethan is running away from everything but he is also running to something new. It is like in the Giver even though he is running from that lifestyle, he is going to a new one. He is running to a new and maybe better life.
ReplyDeleteI think theoretically all people that have read books and understand and like them have gone on that path. It's a path that people take, the "wrong" path.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Derek, that he is not only running away from the police and the law but that he is running away from his old habits, his bad choices, and from the society that he lived in.
ReplyDeleteMontag was fed up with how society was shaped and he wanted to get away from it all. He believed that society was ruined and he did not want to live anywhere near such a corrupt place. He is escaping the evil that had held him hostage while in the city, as well as his past beliefs and traditions. Montag is escaping to start a new life.
ReplyDelete@ Joy: I think that Ray Bradbury did intend it to be a metaphor. Throughout F451, there are tons of metaphors and symbols. It seems like he includes a lot of these in his writing, so it wouldn't be surprising if this was one also.
ReplyDeleteI dont think that all radicals like Montag even know about this little colony of pro-book poeple.
ReplyDelete.... and I agree with Lauren. He burned the whole house because he wanted to be finished with everything.
ReplyDeleteJoy-
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think that Ray Bradbury did put that as a metaphor, on purpose.
I think that the run he makes could be the beginning of his new life, and i don't think the railroad is really a symbol like christina said, cause they already knew where they were going to begin with.
ReplyDeleteI think that he is running from the police, but maybe he could be Unconsciously leaving the society, but it is not his first thought.
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag is running from his old life. He had enough, got fed up and messed it up. It was good in a way though because it cleared him from the city and the war. He survived and this was good so he could carry on the books. This all happened for a reason, he ran away from his past life and now he will start the new era where books are excepted. He ran from one life into another.
ReplyDeleteKyle: I don't think that Montag is a radical;
ReplyDeleteHe's just different.
Thanks, Lauren
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lauren. He is trying to run away from society and life that he lead while he was a fireman. He wanted to escape the censorship and the norm that society had created. He burned his house and was torching everything because he wanted to get rid of it and make it nonexistent. Almost like he was trying to make it seem like it never happened.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kyle, Montag seemed genuinely surprised when he came upon the book people. It was by chance that he stumbled across them, and if he knew about them before, why wouldn't he just go to them earlier?
ReplyDeleteI like what Sarah said about unconsciously wanting to leave. His life would be his first priority, but I think that in the back of his mind, he wanted to get away from society too.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Suzy because in his old life he didn't feel anything or know anything real all he knew was a few quotes from a few books and all the other books were bad. Now that he has read a few himself, he found out what the real world is like. And now his old life scares him and he is running.
ReplyDelete@ Suzy
ReplyDeleteFaber had told Montag that there would be groups like that along the railroad tracks. I don't think it was a surprise to him. Originally, it might have been, because he wasn't thinking about meeting other people.
Different types of people are "in" at times, but they'll eventually die out and a new type of person will come in.
ReplyDeleteThe hound can't think for itself, so it doesn't have the pheonix mentality.
Are Montag and his new associates part of the next spark. As said there is sort of a circle if death and life. Once this society dies, does Montag's reign?
ReplyDeleteThe pheonix is a symbol of repeating history. The bird lives, burns and comes to life again to start the whole process over. This society burned because they did not know how to face their problems and if they don't realize where they went wrong, nothing will ever change. They will not become like the Pheonix because they realize their mistakes and will not repeat history.
ReplyDeleteI think the hound ran the other direction because he couldn't smell Montag anymore. I do not think that the hound can think for itself. Its a machine. Why would the government have wanted to program the hound to think its ok for someone to get away if he had read books, if they are outlawing them?
ReplyDeleteThe hound doesn't think it is programed to hunt and kill. Not think, is this kinda like the society? Contoling?
ReplyDeleteLike everyone is saying, he is not only burning his house but he is burning his old job and his old life. I think that there is a big connection between F451 and their life. The people are going into war and they will live again. The people will always be back with something new and different. The phoenix will burn but come back.
ReplyDeleteI agree with eathan. The pheonix and humans are similar in a way that after a while, the people will eventually "die out", and will come back newborn, with new ideas and beliefs. Just like a pheonix is reborn into the same world he left, but as a new being.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of the government--you know the point in the book where they set up a victim and says it's Montag...do you think that happens in our world?
ReplyDeleteI disagree with what Amanda said. The Hound doesn't have a capability to think for itself, and it was made to hunt down people that have done the wrong thing. Because of Beatty, the Hound doesn't like Montag, and it only went the other way because it had the scent of the walker.
ReplyDeleteThe hound cant think on its own. earlier in the book, Beatty talks about how they decide what the chemical make up of th ehound is. If they decide that,how could the hound think anything but what they tell it to?
ReplyDelete@ Kyle: I don't think people will except Montag's views for a long time. They just expereienced a nuclear war and are in completely disarray and disater. They won't have time to think about books for a long time. Rebuilding the society will be the first priority...if anyone actually knows how to do that.
ReplyDeleteHe compared humans to the phoneix because the legend of the phoenix was that when it was about to die it was lit on fire and it was born again out of the ashes. This was a great comparison by Ray Bradbury because when humans are about to be destroyed the start a war over the iissues in the world and then out of the fire and ashes of war the humans are in a way "born again".
ReplyDeleteKyle-
ReplyDeleteI don't think Montag himself will reign, but their ideas will come into the society since they are the only ones left. They're going to rebuild the society
How come they didn't further investigate Faber for having maybe associated with Montag? Isn't that a crime?
ReplyDeleteI also disagree with Amanda. It wouldn't make sense for the government to program the hound to be ok with letting Montag escape. the government would be breaking their own laws if they did.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz-
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't think that sort of thing happens in our world. If there were to be a police chase live on TV, and it was going nowhere, I think that the media would practically change the subject. I don't think they'd harm an innocent pedestrian.
The mechanical hound is symbolism for technology and the government. Also it represents the governments control over the people. The hound can easily kill his target, just the like the government can easily control its people.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Gov. is above the law.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kyle, I think that Montag's way of life will take over because those are the only people who are left. They are the new spark of life. A rebirth of the society. I agree with Canyon as well. This will be the new government. The burning of the city is like the burning of the Pheonix and when it is born again it will be Montag who is in control.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kelly that the hound symbolizes fear because if you do something bad, the hound knows and if you try to run, like Montag, he can track you and punish you however it is programmed.
ReplyDeleteI do not think they set up people to make it look like we caught people on the run. I do think that at some point this could happen though because everyone wants to please everyone. When they think a mad man is running down there street they are not going to be happy but if the know they are in the safety of there home and that Montag is caught, they feel much more comfortable. The government can go to extremes and I think that at some point this could be one of them.
ReplyDeleteI like what Nick said about humans being born again after war. I think that is definately true in our society, but in F451, how will they be born again? They'll be concerned about rebuilding, but no one will know what to do because they have no knowledge? How will they be born again? Will the have to start over with a simple society, not reliant on technology?
ReplyDeleteSuzy: Even though I agree with you, isn't the government allowed to break its own rules? I mean they went after the wrong person, so why wouldnt they break their own rules?
ReplyDeleteI think that the gov. probably has to pretend like they caught a criminal they were chasing because lots of time the person that is against the gov is smarter than the gov. So when they run into someone like that then they have to say to the people that the criminal has been caught to relieve fear.
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz
ReplyDeleteThe government used the person as a scapegoat and i think that in society we use those all the time. The main example that comes to mind is how the Jews were the scapegoat during the Holocaust.
@ Kyle-
ReplyDeleteThey don't know Faber was associated, onlyu Beatty knew that and Beatty is dead
Alex;
ReplyDeleteThats what i meant, like his people, not just him as a singular force.
Kyle-
ReplyDeleteI dont think that they suspected anything of Faber. All they knew was that he was an old man who had a couple "strange" ideas. They didnt really have a reason to suspect him
Could the dog have grown its own opinion or mind. not just the way its programed?
ReplyDelete@Gabby--
ReplyDeleteNot literally set up a pedestrian, but don't you think what we see on TV is manipulated so we are seeing what others want us to see???
I think that Montag accepts books more than Beatty does. Maybe Beatty accepts books a little bit, but hes too rigidly set in following the rules, and burning books is a rule.
ReplyDeleteLauren-
ReplyDeleteMaybe they will have to restart society. Completely. They will have to rediscover things that have already been discovered.
The opinions between Montag and Beatty is different in the sense that Beatty believes books are empty, they have no meaning. Montag however, believes that books contain valuable information that can be useful in society.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the hound symbolizes government because the government is just there for the purpose of being there. I think that the hound represents the power of the firemen and the fear that it brings to people. It was also showing that the animals weren't considered as important as the mechanical hound in their society. Once the town is reborn like the phoenix the opinon might be different.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz and Gabby,
ReplyDeleteI think that things are manipulated on tv. Somethings they can't show on tv for the protection of others but some things are just manipulated to be pleasing to the watchers.
Mrs. Moritz-
ReplyDeleteWell, yes. The media and government probably do edit what we see on the news. They probably aren't going to tell us the whole truth.
@JOy:
ReplyDeleteya except for the fact that Montag's scent led the hound to faber's house. If it just stopped there, they must have some suspicion.
I agree with Adam. They have two completely different opinions, so their actions are different!
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Mortiz: I do think that the media manipulates things so that we see and believe what they want us to. It might not be as dramatic as F451, but you can manipulate media simply by leaving certain things out. It's like the lying thing we talked about in class a couple weeks ago: is it still a lie if you don'te tell the whole truth? It's sort of like what the media does. THey might not tell us everything, and that can actually lead to false perceptions of events.
ReplyDelete@ Gabby-
ReplyDeleteDo they even have the skills to rebuild? There is a possibility that they will wake up but then again they are so centered on their technology they could feel lost and become even more listless without it.
Katie, please explain your idea. Why would they be there just to be there?
ReplyDeleteTaylor- If the government went around breaking their own rules, wouldn't society just become corrupt? I dont think that capturing an innocent man is against the rules or laws. People don't know he was innocent.
ReplyDeleteGoing back to Mrs. Moritz's question I agree but im not sure they set people up to take the fall like in the book but the government through the CIA and other agencies do things that are never even heard about or talked about and when we live in a world like that I wouldn't put it past the government to do something like that.
ReplyDelete@ Joy: I think what Gabby meant by rebuild is to start completely over, at the beginning of civilizatin. No technology, no government, just people trying to survive. They might have to go through the whole civilization process again.
ReplyDeleteSorry everyone. Tech difficulties
ReplyDeleteQuestion: On page 141 Ray Bradbury capitalizes the word 'time,' why do you think he does this?
-David
@ Joy-
ReplyDeleteThey might not know where to start, or even how to rebuild. But, eventually, someone will think of an idea of how to rebuild, and that idea will spread.
Ethan had a good point. you either break the law and get punished bad or dont break the law at all.
ReplyDelete@ Lauren-
ReplyDeleteYes! That's exactly what I meant!
Suzy: But Montag WAS guilty. He DID have books, and he DID kill Beatty. And I think that this society already IS corrupt.
ReplyDelete@ Lauren- O, ok that makes sense. Is that possible? Yes, civilizations go through a cycle in which at some point they have to rebuild but do civilizations ever completely start over? just curious.
ReplyDeletegonna answer my question katie?
ReplyDeleteI think the people do not like the disruption of their technology. They just want to find Montag and get him out of the way so they can go back to what they were doing and not be bothered. They could probably care less if it was the real Montag or not. He was no longer a disruption to them so they let it rest without question.
ReplyDeleteSuzy- the government has the right to break there own law. It's like Zach said earlier, maybe the gov. is above the law. Aside from that, the society in Fehrenheit 451 is already corrupt.
ReplyDeleteDon't you think a lot of the time, people in positions of power use "crimes" or mistakes to make an example of??? To scare others? Is this what their doing by showing the false death of "Montag"?
ReplyDeleteThe reason time is capitalized is because its talking about an important thing. It says the sun is burning time, Bradbury is emphasizing how important that is.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Derek
ReplyDeletethe government wanted to send out a message to all of the people that if one was to hide and read books the government will find you and punish you.
@ Joy: I'm not sure. I know that in the Dark Ages they had to start over to some extent, but not completely. However, no matter what you believe about how the earth got here, evolution or creation, or something else, civilization had to start somewhere. Someone had to develop it orginally. I think it is possible, it'll just take time.
ReplyDeleteI think that Ray Bradbury put the emphasis on time because Montag is starting to realize how much time was wasted by burning books and how much time it will take to bring books and knowledge and intellect to society.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz, could you clarify what you mean by to make an example of?
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz-
ReplyDeleteI agree. A lot of the time, I think that the media uses crimes and mistakes to scare others into doing what the government wants.
Bradbuy capitalized 'Time' because he is showing that every second of everyday, something important is burning. We're losing sight of whats important, which is life and living it to the fullest. Why burn more things when enough is being burnt already, time. We're losing the most important thing every second, our life.
ReplyDelete@Sandra-- to teach a lesson to other who might be considering doing the same thing---example- Your parents may discipline an older sibling for something they do, not to just punish them, but to teach you not to do it or you will suffer the same consequence.
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz
ReplyDeleteI think that they are, it seems like they are flexing their muscles and warning other fireman what will happen to them if they follow in his example.
@ Mrs. Moritz
ReplyDeleteYes I believe that people today do that and I think that is what they were trying to accomplish by doing this ti that man, also I believe that they are trying to keep the city calm like nothing is wrong and the criminal was caught.
@ Lauren- Ok thanks:)
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Mortiz: Yes, I think they used Montag as an example. It's what a lot of dictators do, and in F451, the society is pretty much dictating the lives of the people in an indirect way, using the firemen. It's like what Saddam Hussein did, what Hitler did, and I think what Stalin did too.
ReplyDeleteI agree with rachel. The people of the society could care less whether or not it was the real Montag or not. By showing the false death of Montag, it just shows people that if you do something to go against the government, they will be brought down.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz-
ReplyDeleteYes, in the past, they hung people in public to make a point. They wanted to show the alleged actions of the person were unacceptable; for no one to follow their example. Montag was shown being killed because he broke a law. They just wanted to show that in order for the everyday people to be happy, they need to obey the laws and everything will be okay.
Ben- Why does the government have the right to break their own laws? Shouldn't they be trying to set a model for the citizens? If the government begins breaking the laws, then everyone might being breaking the laws also. The society in F451 is already corrupt, but the people don't know that because they are so immersed in technology. They don't think their society is corrupt because they are oblivious. They think everything is prefect. If everyone starts breaking the law, then would society eventually become corrupt for the people?
ReplyDeleteWhat does anyone think what will happen to the Blacks? (the people who Montag called an alarm on) Especially since the whole thing with Montag being captured, and Black is a fireman, will he be made an example of too?
ReplyDelete@Mrs.Moritz--
ReplyDeletethanks for the clarification :) I do think that they are warning others from doing the same. They don't want people to have their own opinions that interfere with the rest of the society which in their eyes, were what Montags ideas were doing.
@ Rachel and Adam-- isn't it sad they do not really care.
ReplyDeleteETHAN---He already had some idea about books since he had them hidden. Clarisse isn't the only reason he started reading. He wouldv'e started either way
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Montag could ever go back to living his old life. Too much has changed, I don't think he could do it. Also, i don't think the government would let him go go back to living his old life.
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag probably has some regret of his spark, but then he relizes that the changes that have happened to him most likely have happened for the best, so he doesn't regret it.
ReplyDeleteHe did think of them because he would look up at them everynight
ReplyDeleteI think that Captain Beatty did his part because he didn't want to be out in the open that he liked books. If he did that their society would look bad. Instead he helped Montag by antagonizing him about books. He was still not a fireman but looked like Montag's fault.
ReplyDelete@ Taylor-
ReplyDeleteWell at the end of the book, didn't it say that the city was bombed? So, if the city was bombed, then why would the civilians care about the books?
I disagree with alex. Clarisse is pretty much the main reason he even thought about reading and stuff.
ReplyDeleteTaylor- I think that the govt will want to treat it as an ordinary "book infraction" and burn his house and then take the Blacks to the asylum
ReplyDelete@ Suzy: In our society, we can argue that the government doesn't have the right to break laws because of the Constitution. However, that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. During WWI, there were laws that made it illegal to speak our against the government. That's against the 1st ammendment. If our society breaks there own laws, the one in F451 would be much worse. But the government in F451 is so corrupt, would they even care? Probably not. Besides, who's going to stop them? Everyone is ignorant. It's just a bad situation for the average citizen.
ReplyDeleteAlex-
ReplyDeleteI completely agree. Time is being wasted with the miniscule details. They are important but the government is stressing the wrong morales and qualities in life. They are burning time and they must take advantage of it in order to achieve the results they want. Such as taking the focus off of technology.
Gabby: But there were hours in between the alarm and the bombing. There was plenty of time to burn their house and arrest the family.
ReplyDeleteIf Clarisse was the spark that got him interested in literature, then why had Montag been collecting books before he met her? What had caused that intrigue?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Zach-
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag was always like he was at the end of the book. Thinking independantly. I just think that Clarisse was a catalyst for what would have happened later on.
Zach-
ReplyDeleteHe was already thinking about books. If he wasn't, why wouldn't he have hid books before he met her?
@Mrs. Moritz,
ReplyDeleteA lot of the time the crimes that are committed by people are hyped up and shown over and over again on TV and I think this is to make the people of the society fearful and to make the people obey what the government says.
I also agree with Adam about how the people could care less about whether it was the real Montag or if it was fake. I think the people just wanted someone to be caught and they wanted to be entertained.
Joy, if the government wanted to treat it as an "ordinary book infraction" then why did they put all over the news and make such a big deal about it?
ReplyDeleteYeah your right Adam. My bad.
ReplyDelete@Adam,
ReplyDeleteMaybe because he was always around them. Every one has curiosity and his showed by taking books.
your right too Alex
ReplyDeleteTaylor-
ReplyDeleteOh, okay. Well, I think that the police wouldn't have used them as another example. I think they would have just treated them like a normal couple.
Suzy- Well if they started making a big deal about every single person who had books, then the society would veiw owning books as more normal. The dramatization could also send the message that the govt was losing power
ReplyDeleteClarisse was put into the book just to show the other extreme of their society, the "odd" one. We have those people in our society today too.
ReplyDelete@ Gabby: I agree. Montag probably would have continued to think independentally and disagree internally with what he was doing. However, without Clarisse, he might not have gone to the extent that he did. He probably wouldn't have killed Beatty or read poetry to those women. I like how Gabby put it: she was the catalyst.
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz in the afterward when it talks about Beatty owning a whole secret library was this a scene that was cut out of the book or was it before the book even starts?
ReplyDeleteI dont really know, Max, but maybe it has something to do with the remembering of there books.
ReplyDeleteMax: Isn't he just referring to the society they'll rebuild, and that they should reflect their knowledge?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Alex that he still thought about them because he took them and looked at them every night. I think that Clarisse knew that he was a curious fireman and that is why she picked him to talk to. I think that Clarisse was like a book which is like a tool. The thoughts were there they just had to come out. And Clarisse helped the thoughts stimulate.
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag would have still gotten to where he is at the end of the book without Clarisse because his curiosity was always there, but Clarisse was just a catalyst and sped up the process
ReplyDeletemax-
ReplyDeleteI think that the mirror factory was somewhat significant. The people needed to take their eyes off technology and focus on what they have become. They need to realize how far they have gone downhill. It was sort of used as a wake up call. They need to see themselves but do you think their society could go from technology centered to self centered even more without technology?
@Adam,
ReplyDeleteHe wanted to take the books because he was always burning them and he never knew what was inside them. Also it says at the start of the book when he was taking the bible that his hands were controlling him and somehow the book landed in his hands and he just took it.
@Sandra- is everyone interested by books? Would that mean that the other firemen had kept books, or had wanted to take books? It seems to me that Montag and Beatty are the only two that are influenced in any way by books.
ReplyDeleteTaylor: it is talking about taking a look at themselves and realizing what they're like.
ReplyDeleteJoy-but the government doesn't want people to think that they are loosing power. If they put it on the news every single time they went and burned a house full of books, people would see it more often and just because they see it more often doesn't mean that they will think its normal. On the news there are a ton of murders, but people don't think murder is 'normal'. Just because it is often on the news doesn't mean that people will think its ok.
ReplyDeleteMirrors could be more literal
ReplyDeleteZach: The professors, or the general society?
ReplyDeleteBut Jason, Without catalysts, sometimes things don't happen so maybe that boost will be just the thing needed. Witought her, I think Montag would have never changed or anything. Probably just staying the same.
ReplyDelete@ Nick--
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure, but if I had to guess, it would be something that was ommited from the final edit.
The salamander represents society- salamanders are fire-proof. You can try to kill it by burning, but it will not die. Society tries to burn their problems away, but these problems will still linger, they will never entirely be extinguished. The men in the forest prove this.
ReplyDelete@ Adam: The only people interested in books are probably those who aren't content with their life. Montag wasn't happy, and he thought that if he could learn the truth and gain knowledge from books, he could fix his life and learn to be happy. Beatty wanted books because he wanted power, and knowledge is power. Faber wanted the books because he simply valued the words and knowledge. The average person like Mildred is too consumed by technology--they are "content"--so they never think about anything else.
ReplyDelete@ Ben-
ReplyDeleteWithout catalysts, things do happen, they just happen at a slower pace. A catalyst just speeds a reaction up.
I agree with Taylor. He is talking about how th society they need to make should reflect their knowledge and their past. They need to head in a new direction but they can never forget how technology took over because then there is a chance history could repeat itself.
ReplyDelete@Adam,
ReplyDeleteI think that all of the firemen eventual get interested in books. Captain Beattty says that he has a foremen take books because they are curious. This means that Montag wasn't the first firemen to take interest in books. I don't think other firemen were influenced by the books, just curious to look inside one and see what they held.
Taylor: Just everyone, they all are leading the wrong life. they need to look into themsselves. is that what you were asking about?
ReplyDeleteBen, things do change without catalysts, it just takes a longer time. Catalysts just speed up reaction and Clarisse is that, she just sped up the time it'd take for Montag to truly get into books at that intensity.
ReplyDelete@Max
ReplyDeleteI think the mirrors are a symbol for how society needs to look at their mistakes and realize what they did before they can fix it.
In response to Luc, I would assume that they all went through a similar experience as Montag and they all ended up together...so, they just had a feeling the Montag would end up with them.
ReplyDeleteAdam, Is it society that trys to burn there problems away? Aren't they just clueless? I think it is maybe the gov. that is trying to burn your problems away.
ReplyDeleteIf they had kept the scene in the afterword and put it before the book do you think it would change the way we look at the book and maybe it would explain why Montag had those books to begin with and why he collected them?
ReplyDelete@ Suzy-
ReplyDeleteOk yeah that makes sense
I think that Christina is right. Faber could be a recruiter for the people with the books. I don't really think that Faber will recruit though. I think that he will help those that recruit themselves.
ReplyDeleteZach: Yes, that is what I was asking about. But since, at the end, the city is bombed, and we know that the professors are in the right, since they rose above technology. If they are the good people of the society, is there something still wrong with them?
ReplyDeleteDo you think Montag had any idea where he would end up and that there would be people there with the same mindset as him?
ReplyDelete@lauren- that is a good point, society seems to be content with how they are living, and only those who aren't happy will interest people. I agree with you completely.
ReplyDelete@ Ben he was already taking books and reading.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Nick, and maybe that's why they left it out.
ReplyDeleteTaylor: Yes your right, i forgot about that.
ReplyDeleteI think that the railroad is the path to his new life.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Montag had any idea where he was going. I think he just hoped that there was somewhere better, somewhere he could learn. He was lead by his hope.
ReplyDeleteLauren-
ReplyDeleteThe people are only content and not questioning because they are okay with other people running their life. They do not have the intelectual ability to question and think of what lies outside the city. They fear the government and do not want to go against it. For those who know there is something more and are not content with having that knowledge hidden from them are the ones interested in books. They are bored with technology ruling them. If books are burned why do you think that doesn't spark interest in others? They are burned so there must be something interesting there.
JAson, he was reading but he wasn't comprehending the books he "read"
ReplyDeleteThats a good thought katie.
ReplyDelete@Mrs. Moritz,
ReplyDeleteI don't think he knew he would run into people with his own mindset. I think he felt alone and that he was on it on his own from then on.
Books being burned means there is something special and unique in them. The people are not allowed to know but why would they be okay with it? Wouldn't they want to know more?
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz: I dont think that Montag really thought there were too many people like him. That's why he went to Faber. When he went to Faber, he said that Faber was the only person he knew that he could go to. That means that he thought there were very few people like him. The people who share Montag's mindset try to stay inconspicious and hidden.
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz-
ReplyDeleteOriginally, when Montag started stealing the books, I don't think he thought that he would end up a fugitive and find other people with his mindset. But, after he started talking to Faber, I think that he knew that there were other people with the same mindset as him, he just didn't know that he'd be on the run. He wasn't planning on Beatty coming to his house, burning it, trying to arrest him, and then Montag himself killing Beatty.
Zach: Do you think at all that these people who will rebuild their society will ever go back to the old ways, since that is the society they're used to? Just wondering what you think. (anyone, actually.)
ReplyDeleteRachel-
ReplyDeleteThough books are burnt, it doensn't spark interest in others because of how they are brought up. They are taught not to have interest and there's only a select few that do.
I sort of agree with cole, OMG
ReplyDeleteAlex-
ReplyDeletewhy do only a select few have interest. What makes them different from the others?
@ Rachel- Yes you would think that the average human would want to know more but you have to remember that the people in F451 aren't normal. They are all about technology and anything outside that doesn't really matter to them
ReplyDelete@ Rachel: I don't think they care enough to figure out what's in the books. Technology is way more important to them. They DON'T think, like you said, so they would think enough to consider that books might be more than the government says they are.
ReplyDeleteTaylor: That probably wont happen because if you read history and stuff, it wont repeat itself.
ReplyDeleteEthan brings up an interesting point. The government says education is important but they also ban books. This is very hypocritical and again brings up the point of who should be banned, and if they are banned do they need to be destroyed?
ReplyDeleteTaylor- I think that if the people do rebuild their society, then theres always going to be the odd man out, like Clarisse, that goes against what everyone else is doing. If they do rebuild it, I don't think that everyone would fall back into their old ways, but I think that a couple of people would.
ReplyDeleteRachel-
ReplyDeleteOnly a select few have interest because its their personal human nature. It's their personality and something needs to spark it to make that come out in them.
@Mrs. Moritz: I don't think that Montag knew exactly what he was going to, just that there was somewhere to go where there would be books. That ties into the symbolism that the salamander will never really die in the fire. The books will still be there even if the books aren't physically there.
ReplyDeleteZach: That's a really good point. But if these people don't teach the next generations about the downfalls of technology, do you think that they'll eventually turn back, referring to the whole choosing higher cliffs to jump off?
ReplyDelete@Taylor,
ReplyDeleteI don't think the people of the society will go back to there old ways completely. So many books are burned it would be almost impossible to get that information back. Also, once people grow up in a certain society they get used to it. It would be hard from going to only looking at screens at school and such, the actually having to learn. I do think that eventually they could go back in some ways. If you can get to that place of being soley based on technology, then you can probably get out of it.
Its possible. It Probably would sound glorious and glamerous, so yes its possible
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Zach, the only way that history wont repeat itself is if you do read it and plan on changing the mistakes. If you don't, than it will repeat over ad over.
ReplyDeleteAlex-
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm really wondering is why their human nature is different from others. They have all been brought up in the same society, same beliefs. What went wrong?
that was to taylor
ReplyDeleteAlong with the freedom of speech thing in the future do you think that they took away Constitutional right when they say it is banned in the U.S. because they live in Chicago and do you think that people even follow the Constitution because technically that would be breaking their laws?
ReplyDeleteSandra: But the only people who have survived from this city were the professors, who didn't learn by looking at screens, and they certainly won't teach with that same method.
ReplyDelete@ Sandra and Taylor: The society of F451 was destroyed by nuclear war, right? This means they will have to completely rebuild, because no one has to knowledge to rebuild from the point of where they were. People don't know how to manufacture the technology, because so many of them were killed. They will have to start completely over. This means that if they do go back to there old ways, it will take a very very long time.
ReplyDeleteAre there any books in the U.S. that are illegal to read???
ReplyDeleteRachel-
ReplyDeleteNothing went wrong with them. Like in our society, some people have a human nature that makes them want to smoke at a young age. We were all brought up in the same society, but they do it while some of us don't. They have friends or someting that's a little spark that makes it come out in them.
@ Sandra: I don't think so, but there are books that are "illegal" in some school districts to teach. I don't think they can actually ban you from reading a book, though. It's against the first ammendment: freedom of speech.
ReplyDeleteRachel- I do not think that everyone has been brought up in the same society with the same beliefs. Even if they have been brought up the same, eventually they would start forming their own opinions.
ReplyDeleteOn the last page when the group was walking towards to the sitting, people started falling in behind Montag as he was walking. What do you think of that?
ReplyDelete@Sandra-
ReplyDeleteI don't think there are actually books that are illegal to read. Like we've discussed, there are banned books that in certain areas aren't allowed to be in libraries and taught in school. But, there probably aren't books that you will get arrested for if you read it.
Because he was finally able to feel something for Mildred when he knew she was gone.
ReplyDelete@Rachel
ReplyDeleteI think that one reason why they are different is becacuse they have a different personality that makes them more interested and curious then others. Also I think certain experiences make people differnet from others. For example Montag meeting Clarisse was the spark that got Montag really interested about books and knowledge. Maybe others have had similar experiences that jump started their curiosity.
I think that if you ban a book in a school they are not comfortable with the content of the book. When the book required to read, in school people don't want it read. If the people aren't required in the USA it is not bad if it is a choice.
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz-
ReplyDeleteI think that when his group falls behind him, they are showing that they think he's a leader. A great leader. They trust him to lead them to where they need to go.
Suzy-
ReplyDeleteOk, so why do some form their own opinions and others don't? They all go to the same schools, have the same government and most believe the same things.
@ Mrs Moritz- I didn't understand that all. I thought they were going to stay together as a group
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Mortiz: I didn't notice that people starting falling in line behind them. Is is almost like they are following him? If so, it could symbolize that eventually, he will be in some sort of leadership role. After all, he's one of the more capable people so if they have to rebuild society, he would be a logical choice for a leadership position.
ReplyDeleteSandra-
ReplyDeleteI just looked it up, there are no banned books in the US. Just challanged books
I agree with Cole, we take everything for granted and we don't realize how much it meant to us until it is not longer available or gone.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs. Moritz. You never know what you have until its gone, and after Mildred was gone and all his problems in society had been annihalated, he could think straight and remember things that he had wanted to.
ReplyDeleteI agree Gabby
ReplyDelete